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For those who are voluntold or are going to volunteer for Vance AFB flight training!

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larbear

FOSx1000
pilot
I like it here at Vance, but I don't like the AF treating us like little kids. I like having the academics and sims taught by retired military pilots because they are laid back and have a ton of experience. The list of rules for my flight is about 6 or 7 pages of 8-point text that makes you feel like a criminal before you've even done anything.

As far as what type of flying experience students show up with, my class has a lot of guys with flying time, including a 4000 hour airline dude and multiple people with several hundred hours and advanced ratings. Because of this, it is nice that the Navy doesn't count our flights in the NSS until after solo (this gives some time to let the zero-time and IFS-only folks to catch up). Speaking of NSS, for T-6 students here (at least for the time being) your NSS is based on your performance relative to the last 60 Navy/USMC T-6 students to go through at Vance and Moody. As was said earlier, your NSS is based only on post-solo flights, and all flights including checkflights are weighted the same. You are not compared with the AF or ANG students. What I've heard is that the benefits of prior flight experience are most evident with the instrument flying when students come here with lots of instrument experience.

My flight gets to the T-6 flight line in a couple of weeks, and I can't wait to get started. I hear life will suck extra hard for the first 15 days, but at least I'll be flying.

BTW, I volunteered to come here because of the T-6/T-37 (call me insane if you like), and I'm going to enjoy this whether I like it or not. I'll just try to pretend that this is really NAS Vance, even if the AF doesn't know it yet.
 

alwyn2nd

Registered User
You Naval service guys/dolls need to look at AF JSUPT as an extention of OCS/TBS. Very rigid, inflexible and professional. The USAF takes it quite seriously in creating the absolute best military aviators in the world. The AF mission is to totally dominate the aerospace arena anywhere on the planet. That's their only reason for existence. Whether it's downtown Bagdad or downtown Moscow. They are the FIRST team in AIR POWER. They must be the best on what they do. No credit in combat on being second best.

Could it be more lax, perhaps. But so could Navy OCS or USMC OCS/TBS but it isn't. The Navy OCS and USMC OCS/TBS standards will never be lowered to be more enjoyable. In fact, you can compare AF JSUPT to the Marines TBS. High standards, pressure cooker environment, and team oriented.

Remember in the USAF, the majority of combatants are aviators/officer and they must be tested as early as possible for their flying/leadership abilities.

Each service flight program produces a quality product. But never dis ANY service when it truly test their students and brings on the pain.

I glad to see that some Naval officer realize the AF is not a walk in the park. The Navy/Marine have quite a mission around the boat. And, they must expect/demand the USAF to be the best AF in the world.

If you want a laid back flight training environment, don't go AF. You will be tested and the AF WILL BRING ON THE PAIN.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I can't tell if this post is for real, or if your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek. I could start going off on a rant about some of your arguments, but it probably wouldn't matter (leadership abilities???)

Is AFJSUPT more painful, and therefore "harder?" Probably, but beyond that, please tell me you're poking fun.
 

gregsivers

damn homeowners' associations
pilot
They are the FIRST team in AIR POWER. They must be the best on what they do.
Oh yeah, that must be why a carrier is usually the first on scene since the Navy doesn't need permission to operate from a base. And man, your argument is pathetic.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The USAF takes it quite seriously in creating the absolute best military aviators in the world. The AF mission is to totally dominate the aerospace arena anywhere on the planet. That's their only reason for existence. Whether it's downtown Bagdad or downtown Moscow. They are the FIRST team in AIR POWER. They must be the best on what they do. No credit in combat on being second best.


If you want a laid back flight training environment, don't go AF. You will be tested and the AF WILL BRING ON THE PAIN.
Keep drinking that Kool-Aid, shipmate.

Brett
 

jg5343

FLY NAVY...Divers need the work
pilot
To go back to the original post, most of what he says is true for Moody as well, but since no more Navy studs are being sent here there shouldn't be reason to fret about it. I was feeling the same way he does during the first few weeks of phase II until I figured out how to make it work. The formal briefs are not that bad and you personally only get stood up every couple of weeks. That is not that bad if you have any knowledge of the plane and the way to handle an EP. Who to call, what to reference, how to fly, etc. I will have to say I like it here for a few reasons.
1) I fly every day and sometimes twice a day. And they can always tell me in advance what is coming.
2) I have a guaranteed grad date.
3) They spoon feed you everything and will never expect you to know it unless there was a class taught on the subject.
4) The T6 is BAD ASS!!

The only thing I hate about the program is the 12 hour days. But if you spend your time wisely at work, you can relax when you get home. Don't BS in the flight room. Study. Go home and BS.
Maybe I am just weird or the pressure just doesn't get to me like some, but I am not sorry I came here.

And to answer the question about EPs in the plane, there are no simulated EPs in the plane other than ELPs(SFL and PEL) all others are covered during stand up and seems to work fine. Guys handle real EPs very well here when they do occur. Hope this helps
 

NavyLonghorn

Registered User
Seems way different then what I experienced at Vance just a few months ago, but I guess things can vary flight to flight. We defenitly didnt have to explain how to depress the mike, shotgun certainly wasnt daily, and EP's never took more then a half hour tops. Our Ip's hardly ever hazed, and, the FAIPS were pretty cool.

I defenitly dont miss the 12 hour days though.
 

jg5343

FLY NAVY...Divers need the work
pilot
Seems way different then what I experienced at Vance just a few months ago, but I guess things can vary flight to flight. We defenitly didnt have to explain how to depress the mike, shotgun certainly wasnt daily, and EP's never took more then a half hour tops. Our Ip's hardly every hazed, and, the FAIPS were pretty cool.

I defenitly dont miss the 12 hour days though.

All true for my flight as well. The bigger douche you are the harder it seems though. imho
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
If you want a laid back flight training environment, don't go AF. You will be tested and the AF WILL BRING ON THE PAIN.
Why would anyone want pain when they can get the same or better training without it?

If it's self abuse you like, there are many shrinks out there that have couch space for you. They can probably help you get rid of those delusions of grandeur too.
 

skidkid

CAS Czar
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Why would anyone want pain when they can get the same or better training without it?

If it's self abuse you like, there are many shrinks out there that have couch space for you. They can probably help you get rid of those illusions of grandeur too.

I believ the word you are looking for is delusions. Maybe later we can diagram some sentences too.

Ok Im done
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
I believ the word you are looking for is delusions. Maybe later we can diagram some sentences too.

Ok Im done
Wow! I've been corrected by a Marine! You guys aren't as dumb as everyone thinks! :D

Corrected, thanks. (BTW...check believ, I believe it's spelled believe...and Im should be I'm.....) :eek: :D
 

skidkid

CAS Czar
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Wow! I've been corrected by a Marine! You guys aren't as dumb as everyone thinks! :D

Corrected, thanks. (BTW...check believ, I believe it's spelled believe...and Im should be I'm.....) :eek: :D
Im painting in broad brushes I cant stop to check the wisdom that flows forth from my fingers, I leave that to others. Thanks.

Grammar dork (-)
 
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