Flight School backed up

[Hotdogs]

I'd have to defer to a RW pilot, and this is probably discussed in the COPT-R thread, but what effect does skipping VT primary have on RW pilots coming back to instruct VT primary students? I'm sure it's doable, but does that just move the problem to the FITU?

The biggest part of primary wasn't just the fact it was a FW platform, but it was the brain stem level basic fundamentals that get ingrained into you that stick throughout your career. The compressed intensity and single pilot mentality is exceedingly valuable even in multicrew platforms when your flying with junior aviators and crew chiefs at some point. Sure, you can make RW pilots without primary, but your cutting out significant experience that provides a solid foundation for future flying. I fly with 2 pilots, but 1 is functionally a WSO 90% of the time, but if something goes south in either seat over the water on a low light level night, or if we need to swap roles and I need to spend a significant amount of time heads down - the other pilot can fly the aircraft without issue. That comes from having a solid foundation that builds confidence in a primary aircraft. Cutting out primary is a stupid solution to a problem and is tantamount to sticking your head in the sand. If that's the route we're going - then just start sending everyone to Rucker.

 

[HuggyU2]

Don't worry, Hotdogs, the USAF is wrecking pilot training too.

Students will get some civilian time now at a contracted flight school (Georgetown Texas is one location), and then show up to UPT.

Thirty-nine sorties (55 hours) in the T-6, and if you're going to a Heavy, you get Winged and head to your follow on training.

I hear that our Euro-NATO pilot training at Sheppard AFB will continue with the "old" method since the foreign nations wouldn't sign up for this new syllabus.

 

[Brett327]

I see we’ve forgotten the Zombie Viking.

Or the 11 Tomcats in AMARG

Do we really expect either of these aircraft, with the RCS of a large barn door, to even be worth throwing at a 5th Gen adversary? No, we do not.

 

[HuggyU2]

No, we do not.

You, Sir, apparently do not have a vivid imagination.

 

[CommodoreMid]

I’m drunk and therefore too lazy to go look through the thread history, but even looking at that probably wouldn’t answer these questions. What percentage of COPT-R types who have finished their first tour are going to competitive jobs like the FRS, weapons school? What is the average time to make HAC for a COPT-R grad? A bunch more related questions come to mind that we probably don’t have any statistically relevant numbers to answer yet, but need to be considered.

 

[HuggyU2]

What percentage of COPT-R types...

I think we all know the answer to this.

 

[Gatordev]

I'm with Brett and Faded...it's not the curriculum that's what takes too long. It's the lack of resources (for numerous reasons that's been covered before).

I had the pleasure of spending a morning with Flynavy03 this last week over at the COPT-R headquarters. While I still don't like the program for the student's sake, I learned some additional information that was new to me and softens some (but not all) of my critiques.

One of the things I learned was that the Primary syllabus has now also been shortened (again), and COPT-R studs aren't showing up to the HTs with that many less hours than VT studs (about one tactical hard deck month's worth). The fact that it's "less" at all is unfortunate, but does help even the playing field down the road. The lack of sustained instrument training in Primary will be an initial issue, IMO, but time will tell how that plays out.

It's too early to answer the many (excellent) other questions that CM and others are asking about fleet performance. Time will tell. But at the end of the day, it would be nice if the Navy could just have nicer, newer stuff and a better logistical train...ah but to dream.

 

[ChuckMK23]

This cool T-45 heritage paint scheme will fix it!!!

All kidding aside, it's cool. Paint them all this way!

 

[Flash]

I’m drunk and therefore too lazy to go look through the thread history, but even looking at that probably wouldn’t answer these questions. What percentage of COPT-R types who have finished their first tour are going to competitive jobs like the FRS, weapons school? What is the average time to make HAC for a COPT-R grad? A bunch more related questions come to mind that we probably don’t have any statistically relevant numbers to answer yet, but need to be considered

I think the first COPT-R grads were winged just last year or earlier this year, so I am not sure any have even made it through the RAG yet much less made it to the fleet.

 

[SynixMan]

Timeline update:

Commissioned Navy May 2021
Reported to Pensacola as a SNA in July 2021.
Finished NIFE in November 2021.
Assigned to Milton for Primary: July 2022 - October 2022.
Started Primary at Milton November 2022. Solo T6 April 2023.
Primary completer at Milton - July 2023.
Advanced Helo solo - October 2023.
TH-57C Day Navigation Solo/Instrument Navigation Solo - February 2024
Winged - April 2024 Heading to Norfolk
Total time since reporting to Pensacola to Winging? 2 years, 9 months, 11 days
MH60S FRS Timeline: Start Syllabus 7/1/2024 - still not finished. Promoted to 0-3 June 2025.

Disclaimer
(no down chits or breaks in training the entire time)

This is crazy to me. I did wings to fleet in 9 months and that included a PCS, a few months to class up, and SERE.