Flight School backed up

[BravoBeach]

Timeline update:

Commissioned Navy May 2021
Reported to Pensacola as a SNA in July 2021.
Finished NIFE in November 2021.
Assigned to Milton for Primary: July 2022 - October 2022.
Started Primary at Milton November 2022. Solo T6 April 2023.
Primary completer at Milton - July 2023.
Advanced Helo solo - October 2023.
TH-57C Day Navigation Solo/Instrument Navigation Solo - February 2024
Winged - April 2024 Heading to Norfolk
Total time since reporting to Pensacola to Winging? 2 years, 9 months, 11 days
MH60S FRS Timeline: Start Syllabus 7/1/2024 - still not finished. Promoted to 0-3 June 2025.

Disclaimer
(no down chits or breaks in training the entire time)

 

[Skywalker]

Timeline update:

Commissioned Navy May 2021
Reported to Pensacola as a SNA in July 2021.
Finished NIFE in November 2021.
Assigned to Milton for Primary: July 2022 - October 2022.
Started Primary at Milton November 2022. Solo T6 April 2023.
Primary completer at Milton - July 2023.
Advanced Helo solo - October 2023.
TH-57C Day Navigation Solo/Instrument Navigation Solo - February 2024
Winged - April 2024 Heading to Norfolk
Total time since reporting to Pensacola to Winging? 2 years, 9 months, 11 days
MH60S FRS Timeline: Start Syllabus 7/1/2024 - still not finished. Promoted to 0-3 June 2025.

Disclaimer
(no down chits or breaks in training the entire time)

Jeez. We commissioned around the same time, still aren’t in the fleet, also no downs or breaks. I’m in a very different community, but I see why our timelines match up. Ask for primary in Corpus, kids!

 

[Randy Daytona]

Timeline update:

Commissioned Navy May 2021
Reported to Pensacola as a SNA in July 2021.
Finished NIFE in November 2021.
Assigned to Milton for Primary: July 2022 - October 2022.
Started Primary at Milton November 2022. Solo T6 April 2023.
Primary completer at Milton - July 2023.
Advanced Helo solo - October 2023.
TH-57C Day Navigation Solo/Instrument Navigation Solo - February 2024
Winged - April 2024 Heading to Norfolk
Total time since reporting to Pensacola to Winging? 2 years, 9 months, 11 days
MH60S FRS Timeline: Start Syllabus 7/1/2024 - still not finished. Promoted to 0-3 June 2025.

Disclaimer
(no down chits or breaks in training the entire time)

Pearl Harbor - Dec 1941
Midway - Jun 1942
Tarawa - Nov 1943
Leyte Gulf - Nov 1944
Surrender of Japan - Sep 1945

3 years, 10 months

Our training pipeline is obscenely too long.

 

[AIRMMCPORET]

Pearl Harbor - Dec 1941
Midway - Jun 1942
Tarawa - Nov 1943
Leyte Gulf - Nov 1944
Surrender of Japan - Sep 1945

3 years, 10 months

Our training pipeline is obscenely too long.

Airplanes I do believe were easier to fly back I those days.🤣

 

[Brett327]

Pearl Harbor - Dec 1941
Midway - Jun 1942
Tarawa - Nov 1943
Leyte Gulf - Nov 1944
Surrender of Japan - Sep 1945

3 years, 10 months

Our training pipeline is obscenely too long.

It isn’t the pipeline that’s too long, it’s the time to train that’s the problem.

 

[Faded Float Coat]

Our training pipeline is obscenely too long.

We're actually providing less training to flight students (at least on the VTJ side) than we have in a very long time. More has been cut because the resources required to support are lacking. For perspective, I went from college graduation to VTJ wings in two years and a day, and that wasn't that long ago. A current VTJ student gets/does less than I did and it takes much longer. The issue is not the curriculum (arguably, too much has been cut) - it's the resources.

 

[Randy Daytona]

We're actually providing less training to flight students (at least on the VTJ side) than we have in a very long time. More has been cut because the resources required to support are lacking. For perspective, I went from college graduation to VTJ wings in two years and a day, and that wasn't that long ago. A current VTJ student gets/does less than I did and it takes much longer. The issue is not the curriculum (arguably, too much has been cut) - it's the resources.

When I compared initial flight training to the entirety of the Pacific Campaign, the intended comparison was the time it takes to get someone through the pipeline.

That said, there is a strong case to be made that for those going rotary, fixed wing primary is a luxury that we can not afford anymore. COPT-R is shorter than T-6 primary, and by reducing the number of primary students, the remaining students should be able to go through faster.

 

[Flash]

That said, there is a strong case to be made that for those going rotary, fixed wing primary is a luxury that we can not afford anymore. COPT-R is shorter than T-6 primary, and by reducing the number of primary students, the remaining students should be able to go through faster.

Just because it is shorter does not make it better, and then there is the issue of just how you chose who goes the helo track straight out of API/NIFE when you run out of volunteers?

I keep seeing the praises of COPT-R by some folks who aren't active duty any more and some deeply involved in the program, but I don't see a lot of feedback from RAG Instructors seeing the product (from what I know not many have been winged yet) or feedback from the fleet yet. I think we all know that faster and cheaper often ≠ better or even =, more often than not it is just worse. So yeah, we're saving some time and money but at what cost? I think there were many of the same questions when they did away with SWOS and replaced it with CD/DVD's and OJT, and we see how that turned out.

So color me, albeit a non-pilot non-helo guy, very wary of COPT-R and its grand promises.

 

[Faded Float Coat]

That said, there is a strong case to be made that for those going rotary, fixed wing primary is a luxury that we can not afford anymore.

I'd have to defer to a RW pilot, and this is probably discussed in the COPT-R thread, but what effect does skipping VT primary have on RW pilots coming back to instruct VT primary students? I'm sure it's doable, but does that just move the problem to the FITU?

 

[Flash]

I'd have to defer to a RW pilot, and this is probably discussed in the COPT-R thread, but what effect does skipping VT primary have on RW pilots coming back to instruct VT primary students? I'm sure it's doable, but does that just move the problem to the FITU?

While there may be no official prohibition I think it would be very unlikely in the real world any COPT-R grad will be able to do a VT-IP tour, since they will have no fixed-wing military experience and it would make no practical sense to take someone you would have to train almost from scratch.

 

[Bad_Karma_1310]

While there may be no official prohibition I think it would be very unlikely in the real world any COPT-R grad will be able to do a VT-IP tour, since they will have no fixed-wing military experience and it would make no practical sense to take someone you would have to train almost from scratch.

Which some would argue is one of the selling points of the program. No fixed wing time means less likely to go to the airlines.

 

[Brett327]

The WW2 comparison is a bit silly. If we lose a bunch of aviators in combat, we won’t have to worry about making more of them because there won’t be any platforms for them to fly. Problem solved.

 

[Griz882]

The WW2 comparison is a bit silly. If we lose a bunch of aviators in combat, we won’t have to worry about making more of them because there won’t be any platforms for them to fly. Problem solved.

I see we’ve forgotten the Zombie Viking.

 

[hscs]

Or the 11 Tomcats in AMARG

 

[HuggyU2]

On the USAF side, our T-6 Mission Capable rate is abysmal.

This isn't helping the Navy's training pipeline.

Navy plane makes emergency landing at Pensacola International Airport

PENSACOLA, Fla. -- Two Navy pilots assigned to Training Air Wing 5 were transported to medical facilities out of precaution following an emergency landing at th

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