• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

Flight Pay Changes

EODDave said:
I think the message was written to be purposefully vague. It also talks about attracting and retaining qualified officers. If they pull the higher flight pays between tours, especially when guys are flying, that just another kick in the balls. If they really want to “attract and retain” guys and gals, they really need to stop making these stupid decisions. They are stepping over a $100 bill to pick up a penny.
Click to expand...

I agree, they should have implemented the new rates across the board, and immediately- not 4 months later. This current scheme basically rewards the people who have already been retained, not the people we need to retain the most- the first and second tour JOs who are forming their career plans, and the training-Os and disassociated tour guys who are immediately contemplating whether they want to deal with the headaches of a DH tour.
 
EODDave said:
I think the message was written to be purposefully vague. It also talks about attracting and retaining qualified officers. If they pull the higher flight pays between tours, especially when guys are flying, that just another kick in the balls. If they really want to “attract and retain” guys and gals, they really need to stop making these stupid decisions. They are stepping over a $100 bill to pick up a penny.
Click to expand...

I don't think it is that vague:

b. As authorized in reference (a), effective 1 April 2018, the Navy is
establishing expanded AvIP rates for aviators who screen for and serve in
administrative milestone billets. Administrative milestone billets are
designated as department head, commander command, and major command (or
equivalent).

So it looks like if you screen, but aren't currently serving in the administrative milestone billet then you don't get the extra money. Complete bullshit. If PERS is trying to "attract and retain" then they have failed miserably.
 
pilot_man said:
I don't think it is that vague:

b. As authorized in reference (a), effective 1 April 2018, the Navy is
establishing expanded AvIP rates for aviators who screen for and serve in
administrative milestone billets. Administrative milestone billets are
designated as department head, commander command, and major command (or
equivalent).

So it looks like if you screen, but aren't currently serving in the administrative milestone billet then you don't get the extra money. Complete bullshit. If PERS is trying to "attract and retain" then they have failed miserably.
Click to expand...


Ok, so just talked to the guys at the bureau and they missed a couple of guys. What they are saying is that as a LT, once you screen for DH AND go over 10 years, you get the higher amount. You stay at the higher amount even after your DH tour, regardless of where you go next (on or off track). You also don’t have to be currently serving as a DH, CO, etc. Once you get the higher amount, you keep it until you FOSx2 for the next milestone, ie CO, or Major Command.

You might not have thought it was vague, but you misinterpreted it just the same. It should be written so that there aren’t questions about who gets it. I think thats called being vague? Maybe I’m just old? Sorry, not sorry.
 
Flash said:
Can't say I know anyone who has joined an airline to serve their country though, at least here. I've known plenty of folks, including more than a few pilots, who have continued to serve past their commitment because they want to keep serving their country. And after 2 hours per annum of clicking through the annual GMT requirements that is exactly what they get to do.
Click to expand...

I bet most people who join are doing it for altruistic reasons.
I bet most people who continue after their commitment are not.
(kids, career track, financial uncertainty, closer to retirement, getting that sweet #1 EP!)

Anyone leaving their job in the military after their commitment is going through the same process as anyone else leaving a job...and balancing all those things, and I doubt that "serving my country" is number 1 on the list...and Oh by the way, what percentage of NON-RETIREES who go to the show are STILL serving their country as a reservist or guardsman...probably about 90%.

Flash said:
Yup, and they are well compensated for their efforts. But even then it's a real stretch to compare 'service' as an airline pilot with military service.
Click to expand...


Sounds like you CAN be well compensated and serve your country. The military could learn something from that.
However, as many have stated, leaving is not ONLY about the money. There are a lot of quality of life reasons.
And NOT serving your country doesn't mean you aren't a patriot.
 
Let me also add...Active Duty folks have no idea what a PITA it is to be a reservist. You are sacrificing your family time, money etc to drill. In a lot of ways it is harder than being on AD. You have all the requirements, and none of the support...in addition to having a full time job. So don't be all high and might about "serving your country"
 
Nasty Flyer said:
Let me also add...Active Duty folks have no idea what a PITA it is to be a reservist. You are sacrificing your family time, money etc to drill. In a lot of ways it is harder than being on AD. You have all the requirements, and none of the support...in addition to having a full time job. So don't be all high and might about "serving your country"
Click to expand...
It eventually drove me into the IRR.. Luckly, it (IRR) wasn’t a bad deal back then and I was able to get enough points to retire in 2013.
 
Nasty Flyer said:
I bet most people who join are doing it for altruistic reasons.
I bet most people who continue after their commitment are not.
(kids, career track, financial uncertainty, closer to retirement, getting that sweet #1 EP!)
Click to expand...

This is why the new retirement system is going to bite Navy/NAVAIR in the arse. Losing out on retirement is in the discussion when you make up your mind to stay or go. Now that you accrue retirement funds 401k style that you can take with you, it'll make it that much easier for folks to walk since your losing even less financially when you leave.

As such I think Navy will then have to throw even more incentive pay/bonuses at folks to stay. Which means ten years from now that flight pay will go up another $100...
 
Nasty Flyer said:
Let me also add...Active Duty folks have no idea what a PITA it is to be a reservist. You are sacrificing your family time, money etc to drill. In a lot of ways it is harder than being on AD. You have all the requirements, and none of the support...in addition to having a full time job. So don't be all high and might about "serving your country"
Click to expand...
<SARCASM>But we’re just a bunch of quitters and non-hackers, right?</SARCASM>
 
dodge said:
This is why the new retirement system is going to bite Navy/NAVAIR in the arse. Losing out on retirement is in the discussion when you make up your mind to stay or go. Now that you accrue retirement funds 401k style that you can take with you, it'll make it that much easier for folks to walk since your losing even less financially when you leave.

As such I think Navy will then have to throw even more incentive pay/bonuses at folks to stay. Which means ten years from now that flight pay will go up another $100...
Click to expand...

I’m not really sure the increased balance of a small (5%ish IIRC) TSP match with caveats is going to be what causes folks to cut ties completely compared to TSP with no match... folks seem to really impress upon the fact that new system folks can take their TSP money with them when they leave, nothing stoped them from taking it with them after they leave under the old system either...

For folks under the new system who decide to stay reserves, they’ll loose out on the tsp match money if they max out their 401K contributions with their civilian employers or have to do a lot of managing contrbutions between plans (employee contributions are limited to the IRS max between all plans with any overage contributions and associated matches having to be returned).

If anything, the reduced pension benefit % point translated into reduced $ would be what causes folks to think it’s even worth less staying vs. going.
 
zippy said:
...folks seem to really impress upon the fact that new system folks can take their TSP money with them when they leave, nothing stoped them from taking it with them after they leave under the old system either....
Click to expand...

I see your point. But if you've been maxing out your match for 10 years, that's a chunk of change you get to keep when you walk. So the extra 5%, along with the -10% cut you mentioned are both incentives to leave, since you won't be walking away with zero DoD retirement contribution, and staying to 20 gets you 10% less. I'd agree the reduced retirement pension hits harder.
 
Nasty Flyer said:
...I bet most people who continue after their commitment are not...balancing all those things, and I doubt that "serving my country" is number 1 on the list...
Click to expand...

I would be wary of making such declarative statements, I know plenty of folks who have continued to serve past their initial commitment whose primary stated reason was patriotic.

Nasty Flyer said:
...Oh by the way, what percentage of NON-RETIREES who go to the show are STILL serving their country as a reservist or guardsman...probably about 90%.
Click to expand...

Again, a pretty declarative statement that may or may not be accurate. I've also known plenty of airline pilots who have walked away from the reserves to include quite a few from the VR's a few years ago after they became eligible for MOB's. I would also hazard a guess that if ~90% of the folks who were eligible to be a drilling reservist were actually in the reserves they wouldn't have their current manning issues, which are especially acute for aviators.

Nasty Flyer said:
...Sounds like you CAN be well compensated and serve your country. The military could learn something from that.
Click to expand...

You can, and we are. In no way can the military come close to currently matching the airlines or Wall Street for pay and it would lose that race if it tried.

Nasty Flyer said:
...And NOT serving your country doesn't mean you aren't a patriot.
Click to expand...

I've never said or implied that, but the suggestion that flying for the airline is somehow comparable to serving you country in the military is a bit of a stretch to say the least.

Nasty Flyer said:
Let me also add...Active Duty folks have no idea what a PITA it is to be a reservist. You are sacrificing your family time, money etc to drill. In a lot of ways it is harder than being on AD. You have all the requirements, and none of the support...in addition to having a full time job. So don't be all high and might about "serving your country"
Click to expand...

I've been a drilling reservist for 11 years now and by no means has my reserve time been anywhere as time consuming or as challenging as my active duty time, unless you count the two years I spent on active duty as a reservist. It can be a challenge at times, especially with the work/life/reserve balance, but I've known plenty from all sorts of circumstances who make it work pretty well. For this that don't, they have done their part already.

As for disparaging the reserves, I haven't seen it here or in real life.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top