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F/A-18 RAG locations and BRAC rumors
- Thread starter The Chief
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There are a ton of rumors and scenarios about what will happen when the Kitty Hawk is decommissioned. Will the Japanese change their constitution to allow a CVN? Will the USN move the forward deployment base to Australia? Guam? Hawaii? I've heard all of these tossed around in conversation, but there is no way to guess what the Navy will do next week, much less in 2008 after the decom.
The Navy is currently spending $1.8M studiying the feasibility of homeporting a carrier in Hawaii. Apparently, many state officials are lobbying pretty hard for it as well.Brett327 said:
Guam is definitely closer to the Pacific Rim, but would have some serious infrastructure issues. Besides, if you're the 3-star, where do you want to live?
bj72
Registered User
Physicx said:
Having lived in Miramar from 1998-Dec 2002, have to say as beautiful as it is, it is too expensive! We are up for orders this year and are sweating out a move back. I love the area, but to find a home there is depressing. And, we have it easy compared to a lot of others in the Marines, we will have roughly $250000-$300000 in cash from the sale of two previous places in San Diego (first lived in a 2 bedroom condo, then a small 3 bedroom home) and the sale of our current home out of CA. Plus my DH is an 04 w/flight pay & the bonus...and we will be lucky to spend $650000-$750000 to get a very small, 4 bedroom (2000 sq ft, no upgrades, patio, virtually no yard) for our growing family. The two car garages for this type home are often so small they don't actually fit most vehicles, much less provide any storage. Anyway, that is to get within 15-20 miles of Miramar with a commute of no more than 30-45 minutes. To put this in perspective, our 3000sqft + current ranch home, highly upgraded with 5 bedrooms, 4 baths, .25 acres, mountain & park views was under $400000. It's in a great school district, plenty of shops, restaurants, and activities. He has a 4 mile, 5-8 minute commute door to door. If we go back to Miramar we will definately be paying through the nose to downsize and have less time together.
Base housing can take years, if you even get it before transferring to another duty station. The officer housing is sad, very old and smaller in sq footage sometimes than the enlisted quarters. They, rightfully (take care of troops first), have built more enlisted housing that looks nice, but there are not nearlly enough units. Quite a few enlisted are on food stamps, some live in Mexico since San Diego is too much. Lots of officers we knew commuted anywhere from 1-2 hours one way...tough on 12-14+ hour days.
It was a great place to be pre-kids when condo living was okay and we both were working (I made close to 6 figures at the time). But we decided the kids should have some stablility of a parent being home with him being gone all the time (last time 20 out of 31 months...hear it is even worse now), so money is tighter now. Then there is the fact that almost anywhere else in the country we could afford a home with a reasonable yard in a safe neighborhood with a decent commute on his salary...San Diego is just outrageous.
I love to surf, the beach, the weather, ammentities (shopping, restaurants, etc) and potential career wise (lots of tech companies) if I go back to work, but it just isn't worth it in my book now that we have a family. Many others feel the same way about living there now. If I didn't have kids, I definately would want to go back since my career opportunities were greater there than any other Marine Corps base hosting FA(AW)-18s (better than any other Navy base too).
My husband mentioned that there are complaints daily about the jet and helicopter noise. I think he really likes the flying there, but felt that Yuma could work as well for west coast FA(AW)-18 operations. The training ranges need to be looked at before jumping on the idea of Lemoore. If I remember correctly they come down to Miramar from Lemoore to use the ranges east of Miramar (toward Yuma)...though I could be wrong. The WTI course is of course in Yuma, but that is it for FA(AW)18s there as far as I know. He isn't crazy about going back to Miramar for the commute and housing reasons as well. We are both hoping for the east coast this time around...but aren't holding our breath.
I'd say of all the three current "main" options for FA(AW)18s (Miramar, Beaufort, and Iwakuni) and the 2 alternative spots for Miramar I've heard tossed about (Yuma and Lemoore) and Oceana, I'd list my places to live from most desired to least in this order:
Oceana
Beaufort
Yuma
Lemoore (close tie with Yuma, but the water stinks there as do the cows!)
Miramar
Iwakuni
If they put Hawaii back on the FA(AW)-18 map that would be in the top 3, probably 3rd, for sure bumping down Yuma. The housing isn't cheap, but still way better from what I have seen online than San Diego, plus, it's Hawaii...
Despite my hate and discontent for the housing and traffic situation, I still will have a tear in my eye if they close Miramar...lot of good memories there, and it is gorgeous.
HTH,
Semper Fi
HTH, just wondering why you ranked Iwakuni so low?
SteveG75 said:
Participated in Project 701 (Downsizing of Navy in Early '70s). Our first draft called for closing Yokosuka Naval Base. GOJ would not "allow" closing. They came up with money to rebuild Yoko infastructure, and some quiet agreements re SSN, CG(N) and CVA(N) visits. Also agreed never to question whether "nukes" were aboard USS vessels, sort of "don't ask, don't tell.
They do like (and need) our protection.
A Carrier in Pearl??? The more things change ....
This has nothing to do with "F/A-18 RAG locations and BRAC rumors", but since the thread has gone askew in any case, "this is no ch!t" ...
The firsthand word this past fall I got (is that a lifetime ago for this discussion ??) -- reconfirmed by my "Friends in Hi (or Low?) Places" Flag Officer in Pearl -- was that the Navy was going to homeport a carrier battle group in Pearl. While that is no guarantee, it does kind of make sense.
The problem is where to put the AirWing while on the beach. NAS Barber's Point is trashed now (it used to be an pretty, manicured oasis -- but no more since it was "given" to the State of Hawaii) and would seem to not be an option at first glance; but in fact, it may be the ONLY option. Kaneohe has limited ramp space for an AirWing and the traffic pattern does not lend itself to the volume of flying that an AirWing could generate.
NAS Barber's biggest problem I see at the moment would seem to be the encroachment from the surrounding civilian community. (read: $$$$ interests) There have been some major housing developments built around there in Ewa and Ko'Olina since NAS Barber's Point closed.....
Senator Daniel Inouye (D-HI) put a clever little proviso in the agreement that "gave" NAS Barber's to Hawaii---namely that the US Govt. could get it back anytime in the "national interest". So this is supposedly the plan.....it makes more sense than Guam, except that Guam is closer to China/Taiwan, etc. But Hawaii is still a lot closer to Asia when compared to basing a carrier group on the West Coast.
Guam just doesn't have the shore facilities to support a a population the size that a Carrier Battle Group would bring with the accompanying shore infrastructure, dependents and such. NAS Agana is not a possibility--too small, and if the Air Force goes back into Andersen in any great capacity, they will probably take up much of it---and there goes the neighborhood.
The only thing that seems certain is that it does look like the DOD wants another carrier in the Pacific in addition to the Kitty Hawk in Japan. As far as the future when the Hawk decoms and a CVN in Japan, I would suggest that all previous bets are off with the emerging threat potential from North Korea and possibly China. I am talking threat to Japan, as the Japanese perceive it. Things are changing there, witness their recent deployment to Iraq (historic post WW2 first) and Japan's intent to revise its laws to allow for overseas deployment of its troops without a U.N. authorization for the purpose of international peacekeeping efforts. (see KBS GLOBAL BROADCASTING Jan 12, 2005).
ROGER BALL !!
This has nothing to do with "F/A-18 RAG locations and BRAC rumors", but since the thread has gone askew in any case, "this is no ch!t" ...
The firsthand word this past fall I got (is that a lifetime ago for this discussion ??) -- reconfirmed by my "Friends in Hi (or Low?) Places" Flag Officer in Pearl -- was that the Navy was going to homeport a carrier battle group in Pearl. While that is no guarantee, it does kind of make sense.
The problem is where to put the AirWing while on the beach. NAS Barber's Point is trashed now (it used to be an pretty, manicured oasis -- but no more since it was "given" to the State of Hawaii) and would seem to not be an option at first glance; but in fact, it may be the ONLY option. Kaneohe has limited ramp space for an AirWing and the traffic pattern does not lend itself to the volume of flying that an AirWing could generate.
NAS Barber's biggest problem I see at the moment would seem to be the encroachment from the surrounding civilian community. (read: $$$$ interests) There have been some major housing developments built around there in Ewa and Ko'Olina since NAS Barber's Point closed.....
Senator Daniel Inouye (D-HI) put a clever little proviso in the agreement that "gave" NAS Barber's to Hawaii---namely that the US Govt. could get it back anytime in the "national interest". So this is supposedly the plan.....it makes more sense than Guam, except that Guam is closer to China/Taiwan, etc. But Hawaii is still a lot closer to Asia when compared to basing a carrier group on the West Coast.
Guam just doesn't have the shore facilities to support a a population the size that a Carrier Battle Group would bring with the accompanying shore infrastructure, dependents and such. NAS Agana is not a possibility--too small, and if the Air Force goes back into Andersen in any great capacity, they will probably take up much of it---and there goes the neighborhood.
The only thing that seems certain is that it does look like the DOD wants another carrier in the Pacific in addition to the Kitty Hawk in Japan. As far as the future when the Hawk decoms and a CVN in Japan, I would suggest that all previous bets are off with the emerging threat potential from North Korea and possibly China. I am talking threat to Japan, as the Japanese perceive it. Things are changing there, witness their recent deployment to Iraq (historic post WW2 first) and Japan's intent to revise its laws to allow for overseas deployment of its troops without a U.N. authorization for the purpose of international peacekeeping efforts. (see KBS GLOBAL BROADCASTING Jan 12, 2005).
Sure, you can build more ramp space in lots of places, but the existing structures would be inadequate for any significant increase in footprint. Airspace may not be an issue now, but again, in the cited case of placing the G model at Lemoore, adding an entirely new community with different training requirements makes airspace issues increase exponentially. Both of these issues have been studied WRT the G model and found to be unacceptable.Fred said:
Brett
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