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Europe under extreme duress

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Interesting, but not that surprising. The current administration is not especially anxious to sell arms internationally (especially to Poland) and I think hopes to spread the global wealth in the arms market. I thought the European commentary was a bit “angry ex-wife” but taken as a whole it looks like a good deal.

Think less anxiety and more capacity and cost, Poland wants arms and they want them fast and getting them from South Korea gets them faster than from the US for what they are buying and for less zł/₩/$ (the FA-50 is cheaper than an F-16 or F-35 though less capable as well, think of it as a modern 'equivalent' of an F-5 or an F-16 lite). It doesn't hurt that the Poles and South Koreans already have an ongoing defense industry partnership, Poland's 'Krab' howitzer uses the K9's chassis. The US isn't exactly losing out either, those FA-50's are powered by GE F404's.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Think less anxiety and more capacity and cost, Poland wants arms and they want them fast and getting them from South Korea gets them faster than from the US for what they are buying and for less zł/₩/$ (the FA-50 is cheaper than an F-16 or F-35 though less capable as well, think of it as a modern 'equivalent' of an F-5 or an F-16 lite). It doesn't hurt that the Poles and South Koreans already have an ongoing defense industry partnership, Poland's 'Krab' howitzer uses the K9's chassis. The US isn't exactly losing out either, those FA-50's are powered by GE F404's.
I agree entirely.
 

Max the Mad Russian

Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Poland wants arms and they want them fast
Poles want arms for good reason: they border Russian enclave which in Soviet times, when nuke deterrence has worked well, was infested with amphibious, airborne and armour assault forces most of all other Soviet maritime regions,and they know from Warsaw pact plans that neutral Sweden was the target of at least amphibious storm too. This memory tells them that you may or may not share the military block strategy, but there always would be the situation 1v1 when is comes to Russia, and they prone to depend on NATO support evidently much less than the other ex-commie members. 800 years of close proximity to Russia make them most realistic of all.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Poland likely wants to get rid of all its Soviet hardware and become a buyer of arms from the West/free world.

Many of our NATO allies that still utilize or have Soviet equipment have donated much of that equipment to Ukraine as the main source of parts is now cut off to them. That, along with the blatantly obvious Russian threat, has helped spur many upgrade and procurement efforts with the planned Czech purchase of F-35's being a good example.

Thirty years now past the demise of the Warsaw Pact it is time for our Eastern European NATO allies to get rid of their Soviet-era equipment but money, politics (internal and external) and a dash of corruption for a few of them have made the process a slow one.
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
An u
The gap from the Carpathian mountains to the Baltic Sea accesses the European heartland to the much larger Asian mainland - with the only barriers being rivers such as the Vistula which bisects Poland. These bloodlands have been some of the most contested geography for centuries. When? 3 years, 3 decades - but history suggests the strategic location of the Northern European Plain will be in perpetual conflict.

In related news, Poland just placed an order for 250 US Abrams tanks.


$6 billion tank deal to Poland cleared by State Department​

By Jen Judson
Friday, Feb 18

And because I like maps, here is a map of the constantly changing borders (and populations) of Europe over the centuries. Another map showing the physical features of Europe.

View attachment 34546



You don't "bitch slap" someone with 6,000 nuclear warheads.

As for hard sanctions, Russia is the world's biggest producers of oil and natural gas - you take that off the market and Europe freezes. Likewise, Russia is the world's biggest exporter of wheat (Ukraine is 4th) and the world will see famine, compounded by the fact that Russia is one of the largest exporters of ammonia which is the basis of nitrogen fertilizer - again, famine. This doesn't take into account other minerals such as coal and rare earth metals needed for modern economies. Finally, the political ramifications of hard sanctions will drive inflation, already at a 40 year high, even higher. This is not something that the ruling parties with upcoming elections want (In addition to US midterms, there is an election in France this year.)
An update on the fertilizer shortage in Europe - which also affects beer…

Beer shortages and pig pile-ups: Fertilizer crisis rattles European food chain​

Beer and meat production take a hit as fertilizer plants shut down due to soaring energy prices.

 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Sounds like a great time for the Netherlands to cancel cattle ranching. Separate threads, but intertwined topics. If Europe is under food insecurity duress, maybe don’t get rid of literally the most efficient manner of feeding people.
 
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