I am Ensign and i recently got a dui. i went to captains mast and i got 30 days restriction, punitive letter of reprimand and detachment for cause. my skipper has endorsed the detachment for me to stay in the navy. but it stills has to go to bupers to be approved. i was wondering if it has happened to any of you and what you know about. this is my first offense of any kind. but i do not know if i am getting kicked out of the military. i am looking for some good gauge. i was tranferred TAD to another command and i am waiting for the detachment for cause to be approved to get new orders. please let me know if something like this happened to you and how this works. i am lost. i have been told that i am going to stay in by my chain of command because that is their recommendation and that is what they have seen before. but what do you guys think. please e-mail me whenever you can. i have been in the navy for nine months because i was commissioned in January 2006 and i did the BDCP for two years.
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Ensign with a dui charge
- Thread starter TUFFCASE
- Start date
Being an Ensign with a dewey is a pretty tough gig. Honestly, I do not know your community or background, but I doubt that this is something that will ever be easily overcome in the Navy. Just having that PLOR monkey on your back will be tough.
You will be hard pressed to find anyone on here who has been in your situation simply because most people in your situation are no longer in the Navy. I am not saying that is right, it just is. If you have a detailer or community manager, I would contact them via the NPC website to at least get a place to start. Either that or contact your CO or XO and request a meeting. Most front offices will give you their assesment of what is going to happen to you.
Good luck.
You will be hard pressed to find anyone on here who has been in your situation simply because most people in your situation are no longer in the Navy. I am not saying that is right, it just is. If you have a detailer or community manager, I would contact them via the NPC website to at least get a place to start. Either that or contact your CO or XO and request a meeting. Most front offices will give you their assesment of what is going to happen to you.
Good luck.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
I got arrested for a DUI as a 1stLt, and it was dismissed. Since I had a CO/XO that were willing to throw their nuts on the line for me, I wasn't NJP'd. Don't know what to tell you, because with a PLOR and a Detachment for Cause, even if you stay in I doubt you'll make LT or LCdr... Sounds like your command really screwed you.
How did the command screw him? If they are recommending he NOT be detached for cause, then they are trying to help him out. Once having received mast for a DUI, then administratively, the report goes to his community (guessing CEC), at that point the Community comes back with a request to "show cause for retention" or no need to show cause for retention. The CO can recommend admin separation procedures if he wants but if he doesn't recommend it, the community gets a crack. Clear as mud?
There is little a command can do once someone gets a DUI and the charge sticks; how would it look if Officers didn't get NJP when we all know that a PO3 is going to lay before the mast if he gets a DUI.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
The only reason I said that the command screwed him is because it sounds like they were pretty harsh in the NJP/Mast. I don't know how the Navy works it, but the USMC doesn't have minimum requirements for punishment at an NJP. SO, if you get a DUI and are NJP'd, and they want to give you a chance, they don't even give you a detachment for cause. That way, you have to demonstrate a pattern of misconduct for an Admin Sep. It would be a lot better if they didn't do the detachement for cause with a "good" recommendation.
As for an Officer getting NJP'd versus a Petty Officer, you really can't compare the two. How many senior staff NCO's/Chiefs do you know that have been NJP'd as a youngin' and they still make E-8/E-9? Its easier for enlisted guys to survive an NJP than officers. If you disagree, prove it to me.
There's no minimum at NJP. The Navy and Marines work from the same set of instructions. The difference is that officers are held to a higher standard (rightfully so). Officers are expected to be more responsible than an E-5, so there is less leeway for that officer in that case. The old joke about not being able to make Chief without a DUI is a thing of the past. While a DUI won't necessarily end an enlisted career, it will amount to a significant obstacle to that holy grail of advancement - sustained superior performance. Bottom line - an E can probably recover from a DUI, an officer probably can't, assuming the goal is command - as it should be.
Brett
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
I would agree that the goal should be command, however - you can have goals and not achieve them, and still "survive". I've seen enlisted Marines get DUIs and still make SSgt (i.e. able to retire). Officers who get NJP'd (DUI or not) won't make Maj (i.e. not able to retire). So, I guess my argument is that his command screwed him by making the NJP so harsh. He could work his nuts off (i.e. no personal life) and still achieve a secondary goal of "rewarding career". By making it so harsh, there's no way he's going to stay past LT (if he's lucky).
I agree, but I think Rocky's point was that it would look bad to give an officer less punishment than the average Enlisted guy would get for the same offense. When I was Legal O, I kept records detailing the "average" punishment for a given offense, that way some semblance of fairness could be maintained from individual to individual. I've seen some things swept under the rug in my 16 years. Word always gets out, and it's always bad for the whole command when it happens.
Brett
[threadjack]This is SWO speak and it's a load of sh!t. The idea that every officer wants to command or even should want to is asinine. Don't get me wrong. I think it's a worthy goal. However, I think the process of screening for command is a joke. It's not about who is the best qualified to command our ships, squadrons, and units. It's about who has "played the game" the best and has the appropriate checks in the blocks. The process unfortunately rewards officers who play the best game instead of who does the best job.[/threadjack]
right spirit? ...man whoever came up with that name should have been beaten with a stick...
As far as the Ensign.. I don't know no experience as I commission on Monday, but I do know we had a MIDN at our unit who picked one up for "good" measure... still in the unit.. no more $$ though.
As far as my personal PSA, buy one less drink and get a cab, walk home, ride a lama, I don't care, I had a buddy get killed by a drunk driver, not a good way to go IMHO. I'm all for tieing one on, but use a little common sense, and yes I know.. there's nothing common about common sense....
As far as the Ensign.. I don't know no experience as I commission on Monday, but I do know we had a MIDN at our unit who picked one up for "good" measure... still in the unit.. no more $$ though.
As far as my personal PSA, buy one less drink and get a cab, walk home, ride a lama, I don't care, I had a buddy get killed by a drunk driver, not a good way to go IMHO. I'm all for tieing one on, but use a little common sense, and yes I know.. there's nothing common about common sense....
While you're at it, don't change lanes without a signal, get off your damn cellphone, look BOTH WAYS before pulling out into a street, don't drive sleepy... oh yeah, don't speed. Speed kills.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
I have seen various punishments for DUI.
There was a Fast-Track second class that got stopped at a "DUI CHECKPOINT" on Atlantic Blvd here in Jax. Blew a .08 he admitted to the command to having 2 beers with dinner at 1900, it was 2200 when he was busted. Under what they put out at the Safety Stand Downs, he should have been OK. CO let him go. Said sailor fought and won in court, but it took some coin to do it.
Then you have the First Class that had a crash, he was at .23ish. He got nailed by the command, and rightly so.
We had a LTJG at a sister squadron that got the .08 at a DUI Checkpoint (passed the sobriety checks). Coming home from a function at the CO's house no less. He got butt-raped by the CO and is no longer in the Navy.
There was a Fast-Track second class that got stopped at a "DUI CHECKPOINT" on Atlantic Blvd here in Jax. Blew a .08 he admitted to the command to having 2 beers with dinner at 1900, it was 2200 when he was busted. Under what they put out at the Safety Stand Downs, he should have been OK. CO let him go. Said sailor fought and won in court, but it took some coin to do it.
Then you have the First Class that had a crash, he was at .23ish. He got nailed by the command, and rightly so.
We had a LTJG at a sister squadron that got the .08 at a DUI Checkpoint (passed the sobriety checks). Coming home from a function at the CO's house no less. He got butt-raped by the CO and is no longer in the Navy.
Not trying to piss on anyones parade here...but the examples MasterBates puts out are to me, the reason why the Navy has no choice but a zero tolerance policy with regard to DUI.
Nothing personal to the original poster...everyone makes mistakes, and I sympathize with your situation...but as soon as variability starts creeping into treatment of DUI cases, the policy loses credibility. Bottom line in my opinion is that you blow the legal limit or over behind the wheel...your career is over.
Does this suck for the good guy who had two beers with dinner and doesn't metabolize fast? Bet your @## is does...but thats got to be the standard. Don't put yourself in that position...its readily avoidable.
Nothing personal to the original poster...everyone makes mistakes, and I sympathize with your situation...but as soon as variability starts creeping into treatment of DUI cases, the policy loses credibility. Bottom line in my opinion is that you blow the legal limit or over behind the wheel...your career is over.
Does this suck for the good guy who had two beers with dinner and doesn't metabolize fast? Bet your @## is does...but thats got to be the standard. Don't put yourself in that position...its readily avoidable.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
I personally think "Abosolute Policies" are DUMB. What ever happened to CO's discretion, as long as it is within policies/guidelines. If you don not allow guys some judgement room, you might as well have robots as COs.
There is a BIG difference in my book between blowing .08 at a DUI checkpoint, which I feel are illegal, and are often being contested in court, and being drunk at .16
There is a BIG difference in my book between blowing .08 at a DUI checkpoint, which I feel are illegal, and are often being contested in court, and being drunk at .16
Poor wording on my part. The "as it should be" was IRT officers being held to a higher standard, not that everyone should strive for command.
@ Scoob: I hear where you're coming from, but zero tolerance policies are counterproductive and lead to ridiculous things like high school kids getting expelled for having asprin (drugs) or a nail file (weapon). Every case is different and it's the CO's job to bring his experience to bear so that an appropriate resolution is reached. That's why he gets paid the big bucks.
Brett