Elite Fighter Squadrons?

[Griz882]

Inquiring minds must know...what are you looking at? Robby? Enstrom? Schweizer? Or are you going all out with a turbine??? ?

I am torn between an Enstrom F28 series or a Hiller 12e4. The Hiller is slow, very slow, but can carry four people and quite a sling load at the same time. I would love a turbine but the cost is just too prohibitive. The Hiller would run me about $175 an hour to keep in the sky while an Enstrom F28C would be closer to $250. I have a friend who owns an F28C and he loves it.

 

[Griz882]

I am torn between an Enstrom F28 series or a Hiller 12e4. The Hiller is slow, very slow, but can carry four people and quite a sling load at the same time. I would love a turbine but the cost is just too prohibitive. The Hiller would run me about $175 an hour to keep in the sky while an Enstrom F28C would bee closer to $250. I have a friend who owns an F28C and he loves it.

I should add...no Robinson products are on my list. Ever.

 

[Brett327]

also if we're talking about RPM management in Robinsons:

This video would have been way better if the chick had come into frame after the crash and continued to yell woohoo!

 

[Hair Warrior]

quite a sling load

 

[GroundPounder]

If you have one, it's the Air Assault Badge.


If not, it's the " Dope on a Rope "

 

[HAL Pilot]

Got one from my pre-navy Army National Guard days. I went to the 25th Infantry Division's Air Assault School at Schofield Barracks in the summer of 1981 while on summer vacation at my parent's between my junior and senior year of college. I was bored, my Dad was the Ft. Shafter base commander, and 25th's school's CO golfed with my Dad, my Guard unit at Ft. Story was more than willing to cut me no cost orders - done deal. It was a fun but tiring 2 weeks.

I wouldn't do it now though. Sometime since I retired from the Navy I've developed a distinct discomfort of heights (more like scared shitless).

Not a legal badge to wear on the Navy's uniform.

I don't know if the 25th's school still exist or if only Ft. Campbell has one now. Back then, the 25th's school was only supposed to be used by 25 ID Soldiers with everyone else going to Ft. Campbell. The 25th was one of the first light infantry divisions and was helo centric then.

 

[Griz882]

Got one from my pre-navy Army National Guard days. I went to the 25th Infantry Division's Air Assault School at Schofield Barracks in the summer of 1981 while on summer vacation at my parent's between my junior and senior year of college. I was bored, my Dad was the Ft. Shafter base commander, and 25th's school's CO golfed with my Dad, my Guard unit at Ft. Story was more than willing to cut me no cost orders - done deal. It was a fun but tiring 2 weeks.

I wouldn't do it now though. Sometime since I retired from the Navy I've developed a distinct discomfort of heights (more like scared shitless).

Not a legal badge to wear on the Navy's uniform.

I don't know if the 25th's school still exist or if only Ft. Campbell has one now. Back then, the 25th's school was only supposed to be used by 25 ID Soldiers with everyone else going to Ft. Campbell. The 25th was one of the first light infantry divisions and was helo centric then.

The school moves around as needed. The “main” course is still in Campbell in support of the 101st, but Air Assault is now an easy school to find. That said, it is far harder than airborne (parachute) school and requires greater knowledges.

 

[HAL Pilot]

The school moves around as needed. The “main” course is still in Campbell in support of the 101st, but Air Assault is now an easy school to find. That said, it is far harder than airborne (parachute) school and requires greater knowledges.

In my day, Airborne was physically harder. At Air Assault we had to pass an Army PT test and do a 10 mile ruck hike within 2 hours (I think but it was fast paced) first thing the first day or get the boot. After that, morning PT and the occasional "you fucked up PT". But like you said, there were more skills to learn so there was less "fuck you PT" time. So mentally, Air Assault was tougher.

 

[HeyJoe]

I'm glad this is somewhat anonymous because this might be the dumbest question ever asked, but on the off chance there is an answer, I'm going to risk it.

Why are the no (officially) elite fighter aviation units in the military? In the same vein as special operations, like AFSOC or 160th SOAR......Or to take it even further, a modern-day equivalent of the Fighting Tigers, a group trained specially to command and fight in a guerrilla air war, where US involvement should be kept a secret? Maybe if any one knows how the pilots that flew the OV-10 recently in Iraq got selected, that would maybe come close to what I'm looking for.

PS I know this post will probably give some of you guys a headache at the sheer stupidity, but I needed to do this, sorry.

I suggest you read a bit more about the American Volunteer Group (AVG) which became known as the Flying Tigers before you use them as the model for what you are seeking. All pilots were recruited from stateside bases and resigned their commissions. Some had experience, most did not. The leader, Claire Chennault, was a brilliant visionary who schooled them in appropriate tactics to use against superior turning Japanese fighters AND, importantly, established a rudimentary, but effective early warning network. They achieved great success in the few months they existed especially compared to the Army Air Force units elsewhere in the Pacific Rim.

As to Combat Dragon II, that kinda makes more sense but it was 3 pilots and 3 WSOs for the deployment to Erbil with only 2 aircraft in the Limited Objective Experiment(LOE)/Extended User Evaluation (EUE). To your point, the OinC started the project in 2007 as a LCDR and the A-29 Super Tucano (Imminent Fury) and spent his entire O-5 career as the lead spending 10 years recruiting and training his aircrews. The senior WSO went from O-4 to O-6 while participating (he left for his command tour as a weapons school CO but returned when needed as did others).

 

[ChiccinTendies]

I suggest you read a bit more about the American Volunteer Group (AVG) which became known as the Flying Tigers before you use them as the model for what you are seeking. All pilots were recruited from stateside bases and resigned their commissions. Some had experience, most did not. The leader, Claire Chennault, was a brilliant visionary who schooled them in appropriate tactics to use against superior turning Japanese fighters AND, importantly, established a rudimentary, but effective early warning network. They achieved great success in the few months they existed especially compared to the Army Air Force units elsewhere in the Pacific Rim.

As to Combat Dragon II, that kinda makes more sense but it was 3 pilots and 3 WSOs for the deployment to Erbil with only 2 aircraft in the Limited Objective Experiment(LOE)/Extended User Evaluation (EUE). To your point, the OinC started the project in 2007 as a LCDR and the A-29 Super Tucano (Imminent Fury) and spent his entire O-5 career as the lead spending 10 years recruiting and training his aircrews. The senior WSO went from O-4 to O-6 while participating (he left for his command tour as a weapons school CO but returned when needed as did others).

With regards to the Flying Tigers, I was really just using them as an example of a group of fighter pilots who used unconventional strategy/tactics to the advantage of American foreign interests. I also wanted to mention them on the off-chance that their success did indeed spark some sort of official program in the DoD for pilots with similar skill sets.

 

[HeyJoe]

With regards to the Flying Tigers, I was really just using them as an example of a group of fighter pilots who used unconventional strategy/tactics to the advantage of American foreign interests. I also wanted to mention them on the off-chance that their success did indeed spark some sort of official program in the DoD for pilots with similar skill sets.

Quite the opposite: when they were “invited” to join the Army Air Forcein Spring of 1942 after their success, Chennault went from a retired Captain to Brig General but the AAF “recruiting” team basically ran most of them off except for a few loyal pilots like “Tex” Hill, a former Naval Aviator. That is another issue with so-called Elite units: jealousy and rivalry among peers and others. The USAF later claimed the success of the AVG as part of their heritage but General Bissell tried to subjugate them under his bureaucratic control.

Another case of an elite unit in same time period was the unit assembled and trained by Doolittle that raised the standard of training for their epic raid on Japan. Since Doolittle had gotten out of service, he was subject to intense rivalry and jealousy from others as he rocketed through the ranks and was given key positions afterwards.

Services are bureaucracies for the most part and any unit endeavoring to become an elite unit faces an uphill battle. Are you familiar with the origin of the Special Air Service (SAS) which was created out of volunteers and innovative individuals by another leader with inspired vision. David Stirling faced continual doubts and adversity despite audacious feats in the desert of Africa. It’s a wonder the unit survived at all in the bureaucratic and stodgy British Army.

My message is the designation of a unit or creation of one with the moniker of “Elite” is not always universally accepted and draws a lot of ire from others. It usually takes top cover like Carlson’s Raiders had from FDR himself when the mainstream Marine Corps disdained creation of elite units and resisted creation of MARSOC until relatively recently.

 

[nittany03]

To your point, the OinC started the project in 2007 as a LCDR and the A-29 Super Tucano (Imminent Fury) and spent his entire O-5 career as the lead spending 10 years recruiting and training his aircrews. The senior WSO went from O-4 to O-6 while participating (he left for his command tour as a weapons school CO but returned when needed as did others).

Where did these individuals find a portal to speak to Satan, and what were the terms of the deal?

 

[Griz882]

Where did this individual find a portal to speak to Satan, and what were the terms of the deal?

If you say it backwards it sounds like “Paul is dead, Paul is dead...”

 

[Hair Warrior]

Tank? No, not even close. M1 tanks did a great deal of stout work in Iraq.

Given that the Marine Corps is shedding all armor capabilities in the near future, what does the “Blue-Green Team” have to replace this capability?

 

[Griz882]

Given that the Marine Corps is shedding all armor capabilities in the near future, what does the “Blue-Green Team” have to replace this capability?

Great question. The Marines have long had an uncomfortable relationship with armor. Look at the this way, the largest company in any Marine tank battalion is (or used to be) the Anti-Tank company. Tanks are for Europe and the Middle East and the Marines see the future of warfare along the fringes of what China controls. There is a pretty remarkable anti-tank capability with all the newish rocket artillery stuff and I imagine their combat loads will reflect this.