Earning Warfare Qualifications as an Intel Officer?

[Flash]

I spoke with my friend again last night, and I brought up the SWO pin helo pilot, and he confirmed that will be getting his pin. He said it varies by CO and that another ship hes been on does not allow it.

It is not up to a CO whether or not a pilot can get a SWO pin, OPNAV Instruction 1412.2H delineates who is qualified to earn one. Unless 1412.2H has been superseded by 1412.2I or later, aviators (those that have a designator of 13XX) have not been able to get SWO pins since the early/mid-90's.

There is the possiblity that your buddy's CO might be giving him a 'happy glad' SWO pin in recognition of his efforts, but it would not be legal for him to wear and I am sure many a SWO would more than happy to point this out to him. Unless, of course, your buddy is no longer a helo pilot and is now a SWO. If it is not either one of those then your buddy is simply talking out of his ass.

Clear enough?

 

[torpedo0126]

I apologize. Reviewing my posts, I see that I was acting like I was an authority on it, which clearly I'm not.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I'm checking in for my Disassociated tour this month. I have already been told that the CO will sign the paperwork for 1300's to get their SWO Pin and that once it is your record nothing can be done. I know what the instructions say, I'm just repeating what I was told. I have heard of CO's telling priors to wear both their pins as well (Pilot and EAWS or SWO and ESWS.)

Not necessarily true. I had a CO during my DH tour that awarded Artic Service Ribbons to everyone in the squadron with the philosophy that no aircrew could have met the criteria without the support of all. The ribbon is awarded by page 13 entry. About a year later, the squadron got a message from BUPERS rescinding all awards and telling the CO to resubmit the awards to BUPERS for approval. We were to include all dates each individual nominated for the award crossed the Artic Circle as justification. How did they find out? Routine service record submissions as Sailors reenlisted. They saw the CO disregarded the instruction and took it out of his hands. We did make service record entries rescinding the awards and sent the entries to the commands of those that transfered.

My carrier CO awarded NAO wings to one of the maintenance officers in the carrier's AMID after he did the PQS and made the flights. BUPERS rescinded the award stating the guy's designator was not on the eligible list.

I spoke with my friend again last night, and I brought up the SWO pin helo pilot, and he confirmed that will be getting his pin. He said it varies by CO and that another ship hes been on does not allow it.

Like Flying Low, this is simply what I was told.

Well, when you open a topic up for discussion, that's what's going to happen, its going to get discussed.

I think some of it has to do with when the OP put this up, people checked her profile and saw she wasn't even an officer. So the general advice was to worry about the first steps of becoming an officer and not so much about other quals you can have.

I'm willing to be if Flying Low had posted that he was going on his DA tour and was interested in getting his SWO pin, the response would have been much different.

This CO is not following the instruction and nothing will ever happen to him for his non-compliance. The helo pilot may or may not get by with it. I earned my SWO pin as a LT/frocked LCDR on the CVN a couple of years prior to the instruction changing. When I was up for CDR, I got a call from the officer briefing my record suggesting I have the SWO pin removed as I was ineligible for it. I provided a copy of the SWO instruction that was in effect at the time I earned the pin and he annotated my record to prove my pin was legal.

Also, all it takes is one pissed off senior SWO sending a complaint to BUPERS for them to rescind the pin from the helo pilot.

Will he ever have these problems? Probably not but....

Also, the way this question was answered has nothing to do with who posted it or their experience level. The way I answered does have to do with yours. You continually answer questions on this site about topics you do not have experience or first hand knowledge. "I heard" or "I think" are not facts. Many of your answers are AFU and I treat them as such. It's a common thing on the site with other posters too. The more experience guys know when to post and when to STFU so they don't get shit on.

Edit: Learning has occurred!

I apologize. Reviewing my posts, I see that I was acting like I was an authority on it, which clearly I'm not.

 

[Flying Low]

In reality I could care less about getting the SWO pin. I would much rather be allowed to wear my EAWS.

 

[Ecureuil444]

On a related note, has anyone heard of Marine officers becoming OOD qualified? I think I've heard of a few instances where it's happened. Does anyone know how common it is/ if it really happens?

 

[navy09]

To piggyback on Ecureuil444's question, does it matter at all for Marines to get their deck letter? Is it required for aviators or just for those with aspirations of commanding a CVN/LHD/LHA one day?

 

[Brett327]

On a related note, has anyone heard of Marine officers becoming OOD qualified? I think I've heard of a few instances where it's happened. Does anyone know how common it is/ if it really happens?

You know, it's the fuck-sticks who go out of their way to get the odd, out of the way qual who have fucked it up for the rest of us. Now, because a few eager beavers back in the day decided it would be cool to get OOD underway, it is now all but mandatory to screen for aviation command. So, when you're thinking about how cool you're going to be when you decide you want X qual, think about all the other poor bastards who will eventually be forced to get it down the road.

Not directed @ you, Squirrel - just venting.

Brett

 

[Ecureuil444]

You know, it's the fuck-sticks who go out of their way to get the odd, out of the way qual who have fucked it up for the rest of us. Now, because a few eager beavers back in the day decided it would be cool to get OOD underway, it is now all but mandatory to screen for aviation command. So, when you're thinking about how cool you're going to be when you decide you want X qual, think about all the other poor bastards who will eventually be forced to get it down the road.

Not directed @ you, Squirrel - just venting.

Brett

Seems to me that most Marines wouldn't be caught dead on the bridge if they could help it, but I guess there's always a few motivators. I don't see how a Marine could reasonably pull it off without going way out of his or her way.

 

[EngineGirl]

Marine's can get OOD letters if they put in the work and do it and the CO will allow it. It is up to the CO's discretion on who he will allow to get an OOD letter. On USS last ship we had 2 1st class's getting their OOD letter.

With the SWO pin, it doesn't matter what the CO "authorizes", BUPERS won't accept the paperwork if it is not for one of the accepted designators and he/she won't be legally authorized to wear it. It clearly states in the OPNAVINST who is authorized to wear it so I highly doubt the CO would just go against that. He probably is referring to his OOD letter.

On a side note, a friend of mine in the INTEL world told me they are now hold INTEL boards for their officers (I think YG 06 and junior) and that they have to pass to stay in. I haven't seen anything on this; however, I have not looked either. If this is true, then it is probably a precursor to an INTEL pin.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Why is the SWO pin so important to you? It only signifies that one can drive a ship.

Is that so?

 

[Brett327]

Why is the SWO pin so important to you? It only signifies that one can drive a ship. I don't think intel officers do much shipdriving, though.

Can we please stop confusing the SWO pin with OOD underway. Someone smarter than I am on the subject can expound, but it's driving me fucking crazy.

Brett

 

[navy09]

1) I'm decidedly not as smart as Brett. And while my profile says I'm a SWO, I have yet to report aboard my first ship.

2) OOD Underway is a 'shipdriving' qual that says you know how to run the bridge watchteam and navigate/drive the ship.

The SWO qual (ie SWO pin) requires the OOD Underway qual plus others major quals such as CIC Watch Officer, Small Boat officer, and SWO engineering. Basically, it requires an all encompassing knowledge of everything on the ship- weapons systems, the propulsion plant, fleet/SG operations, etc, etc.

Anyone can get the OOD qual- pilots, Intel O's, enlisted guys, whomever. Only certain designators can get the SWO qual in their record and (legally) wear the pin.

 

[Spekkio]

Can we please stop confusing the SWO pin with OOD underway. Someone smarter than I am on the subject can expound, but it's driving me fucking crazy.

Brett

I didn't mean to make it seem like shipdriving is the only part of the SWO qualification, but that's the most emphasized part of it. A buddy of mine's SWO board was "take us from Norfolk to the Persian Gulf...go."

 

[eddie]

I didn't mean to make it seem like shipdriving is the only part of the SWO qualification, but that's the most emphasized part of it. A buddy of mine's SWO board was "take us from Norfolk to the Persian Gulf...go."

So THAT'S why they say they never get to sleep! Long tests!

 

[EngineGirl]

I didn't mean to make it seem like shipdriving is the only part of the SWO qualification, but that's the most emphasized part of it. A buddy of mine's SWO board was "take us from Norfolk to the Persian Gulf...go."

I guess this could be true depending on the CO, however, that was not the case on my SWO board or the ones I have sat on. Here is my experience with my board, the ones I have sat on, and the ones other SWO's I know have been on.

OOD board is "ship driving" however there is more to it than just knowing how to drive a ship. Typically you get your CICWO qual and some type of engineering qual before you get your OOD. You have to know how everything "works together" on the ship to be a successful OOD (and on the OOD board). On CRUDES ships, typically the OOD has the authority of the CO. Obviously the CO is still the CO, but he cannot be on the bridge 24/7 making all the decisions. I have seen the CO give OOD letters to people yet never let them stand the watch (ie he doesn't trust them but doesn't want them to get kicked out of the Navy or not meet a milestone such as the aviators who have to get them at some point). To receive your OOD letter and actually stand OOD underway are often two different beasts entirely.

SWO boards cover OOD but also encompass much, much more. You have to know your current ship in extreme DETAIL. You have to know every class of ship, submarine, and aircraft the Navy has, what type of radars, propulsion systems, and the weapons systems they have and how/what they can be used for. You have to know the differences in ships, subs, and ac and why some are more advantages in some situations than others (ie would you rather have a CG or DG as an air defense commander and why, what is the difference between DDG flight I, flight II, and flight IIA, etc). You also get asked questions about CSG's, ESG's, air ops, amphibious ops, etc. I had to "draw" different types of operations and explain what everything means (what is a stovepipe, what are the flight patters of aircraft when you are doing x type of ops, what is a chip light, what does a LHD carry, what about and LSD, for this amphibious assault, why did you place these ships there, if you are going through the SOH, what order will you put the ships in and why, etc). You also get asked supply questions, general admin, and on and on. Pretty much anything is game.

SWO boards vary from CO to CO, but typically, what I have experienced, is that you have to have a big hodge podge of knowledge that is far beyond OOD.