Day in the life of a Coastie pilot

[USCGaviator]

...if they know what platforms the CGFOs were in and why they were gotten rid of (I mean if there was an issue besides obsolesence).

The Coast Guard purchased 8 surplus Grumman E-2C's from the Navy and flew them out of Airfac Norfolk and Airsta St. Augustine from 1987-1990. They were used as surveillance aircraft in the drug war. In 1990, C3501 with a crew of 4 crashed near NAS Roosevelt Roads. Prior to the crash the crew reported a wing fire and problems with the aircraft's hydraulic system. There were no survivors. The unit was disestablished later that year.

Members of the crew were:
* LT Duane E. Stenbak (CG Aviator #2283)
* LTJG Paul E. Perlt (CG Aviator #2674)
* LT Craig E. Lerner (CG Aviator #2683)
* AT1 Matthew H. Baker

If memory serves me right we did use the term NFO.

 

[eddie]

If memory serves me right we did use the term NFO.

In light of the NFO question...

Is the Coast Guard considered a Naval service like the Marines (as in, a Marine Officer is a Naval Officer, but not a Navy Officer AND marines have Naval Flight Officers as well...)??

 

[USCGaviator]

In light of the NFO question...

Is the Coast Guard considered a Naval service like the Marines (as in, a Marine Officer is a Naval Officer, but not a Navy Officer AND marines have Naval Flight Officers as well...)??

The answer is yes. The USCG falls under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. However, during times of war (declaration of war) or by direction of the president, the USCG functionally transfers to the Department of Defense under the Secretary of the Navy. In other words, the Coast Guard is that hard nucleus about which the Navy forms in time of war.

 

[KBayDog]

The U.S. Coast Guard falls under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

That being said, since your transfer from the D.O.T., have you noticed appreciable gains in funding, personnel, and training for your "new" mission (the "new" mission that you've been conducting for the past 215 years...)?

 

[USCGaviator]

...have you noticed appreciable gains in funding, personnel, and training for your "new" mission...

Since 9/11 (and our move to DHS), our law enforcement roles have expanded. Monetarily I'd have to say that the move has been beneficial but we're probably no different than the Navy when it comes to money and resources - there's never enough.

 

[sardaddy]

Elder,

I think USCG aviator pretty much covered the respect for service vs respect as an aviator stuff pretty well so that should be settled.

And for you speaking up, feel free to do so. I certainly don't speak for everyone, but I do speak from more than six months experience as a CG pilot. Your perspective is most assuredly desired by those coming out of flight school.

Now as far as you original post goes, you did give some good info about what you do, if you could filter it out from some of the other stuff. You seem to feel that I offended you and the fixed wing community as a whole with my comments. All I can say is get thicker skin. I made a laughable comment, one far more benign than comments you will hear throughout your career as a pilot. The aviation community is not for the easily offended.

If you want to avoid such comments, might I suggest not writing such stereotypical comments that suggest the highlight of ones C-130 career is where you RON after you fly a long way to watch a rescue. Might I suggest you also stop complaining about training flights and collateral duties. If you have done both for less than a year and are already tired of them, you are going to have a rough career ahead of you as you only train more and do more. Plus, having such blatant self promotion as posting news articles about your cases in your own thread is just sad really.

The real kicker though is that anyone who would put "US Coast Guard C-130 Demonstration Team" in their profile, especially a new CP, even as a joke cannot expect to be taken seriously. That along with other gems like "When were not doing trainers or saving people, my unit is patrolling the Florida Straights" make it very difficult to not laugh. You make it sound like you are constantly swooping down rescuing people from the jaws of death or rounding up the bad guys. When that is nowhere near reality and you know it. The guy wanted to know what the life of a CG pilot is like, not what the made for TV movie would be like.



And for those still wondering what the life of a Coast Guard pilot is like, this is it. Sparring back and forth between communities is almost a sanctioned sport.

 

[sardaddy]

Eddie,

To add to USCGaviator's comments, yes, we are considered Naval Aviators. However, some of the folks at Pensacola have a hard time when Direct Commissioned officers from the Army and Air Force automatically receive Naval Aviator numbers when they switch to the Coast Guard as they feel that since they didn't go through Naval Flight Training they don't deserve the title even though they are flying for a "naval service".

 

[Gatordev]

Hmm, this brings up an interesting point, sarDaddy. While in the HTs, I flew w/ an IP who was a former Army warrant turned DCA. I'm pretty sure he said he had to go through Primary and advanced since the Army helo pilots aren't unrestricted like all the other services' helo pilots. So, based on what you know, are the Army DCAs not going through Primary anymore? He would have gone through quite some time ago, so it is very likely the system changed. I can see that as causing a little heartburn when wearing a set of gold wings.

As far as anyone else in the CG wearing gold wings, damn straight. You guys are flying in the same environment we are, and usually w/ smaller ships and crappier weather.

 

[sardaddy]

"I'm pretty sure he said he had to go through Primary and advanced since the Army helo pilots aren't unrestricted like all the other services' helo pilots. So, based on what you know, are the Army DCAs not going through Primary anymore?"

I'm scratching my head on this one as I don't know what you mean when you say Army helo pilots aren't unrestricted like all other helo pilots. Unless you mean that they don't go through fixed wing training. As far as helicopter training goes, Army pilots recieve more initial training than any other service and are not restricted from anything. I guess I just don't understand the sentence, could you expand on it a bit?


I have never instructed at Pensacola so I don't know, but perhaps the pilot you speak of went through primary and advanced as part of the training there, but in the rest of the Coast Guard, the only training any pilots coming from other services through the DCA program is their aircraft transition course. It has been that way for at least 15 years. I am sure it has been that way for much longer but I don't know how long.

"As far as anyone else in the CG wearing gold wings, damn straight. You guys are flying in the same environment we are, and usually w/ smaller ships and crappier weather."

I guess I don't understand this sentence either. Well, I understand it, but it is kind of contradictory. In one sentence you seem to say DCAs don't necessarily deserve the title but in the next you say anyone doing our mission does deserve the title. You do realize that DCAs do the same thing as all of the other pilots in the CG do right? In fact, about 40-50% of pilots in the CG are DCAs. Not trying to argue, I am just missing something. Perhaps I just need to go back to bed and read this again later.


Additionally, it is a good question. Do DCAs deserve the title Naval Aviator or deserve the right to wear gold wings simply because they are now in a "naval" service. After all, they haven't gone through Navy flight training. Which leads to another question. If they aren't deserving what should they wear? Their old wings from their last service? Or perhaps new wings that are not quite the same as the wings of gold?

By the way, I am a DCA and I have wondered this myself. I take no offense at someone who has a point of view that doesn't put us in the best light. It is a legitimate debate. All I know is that I proudly wear my wings and execute the mission. I would still so the mission whether I wore the wings or not.


Oh, another by the way. Many CG pilots who teach at P'cola especially in the HTs are DCAs. In fact, one of the senior CG aviators at P'cola is a DCA. So, many a naval aviator has been trained by a prior Army guy wearing naval aviator wings who never went through Navy flight training. Thinking about that too hard may throw the whole space/time continuum out of whack.

 

[USCGaviator]

While in the HTs, I flew w/ an IP who was a former Army warrant turned DCA. I'm pretty sure he said he had to go through Primary and advanced since the Army helo pilots aren't unrestricted like all the other services' helo pilots.

Gatordev, I think you may have misunderstood him.

In fact, sending our DCAs to Primary and Advanced would really defeat the purpose of the DCA program. The major benefits of the program are:

1. The CG gets a somewhat experienced pilot. The term "somewhat" varies widely. Some guys come in with 800 or 900 hours. I came in with 3,500 hours.
2. The CG saves the expense and time associated with flight training for a DCA - the USN, USA, USAF, or USMC has already assumed that time/expense when they initally trained him or her.
3. The DCA enters the fleet and gets to work conducting missions quickly (explained below).

All DCAs follow the same general path when they enter the CG. After reporting for AD the are sent to New London, Connecticut for the 4-week Direct Commission Indoctrination Course. Upon completion of this course they return to their home unit (the Air Station they will be assigned to for the next 3 or 4 years) and await an aircraft transition course slot. This wait varies but is generally in the 1-2 month range. After getting a slot, they report to the CG's Aviation Training Center in Mobile, AL and undergo 6 weeks of training. Upon completion of the Transition Course they are designated Copilots in their respective aircraft (HH-65 or HH-60) and head back to their home unit to do great things (hopefully!).

Along with SARdaddy, I am not familiar with the term "unrestricted" so I'm unable to address that. I tried to Google it but it only caused more confusion.

So, based on what you know, are the Army DCAs not going through Primary anymore? He would have gone through quite some time ago, so it is very likely the system changed.

I came in to the CG as a DCA 16 years ago and was not sent to Primary or Advanced. To my knowledge I know of no DCA that was prior to this.

To cause a little more "head scatching" let me offer this. When I was accepted in the CG the Detailer wanted to send me to Pensacola as an Instructor Pilot in the HT's (I was an Army Warrant Officer and had never set foot on NAS Pensacola) as my first assignment. I explained to him that I had just completed almost 5 years as an IP at Fort Rucker teaching students and was afraid I would SNAP if I had to climb in the aircraft with another student! He agreed that my mental stability was questionable (not the first time I was subjected to that accessment!). I was assigned to one of the CG Air Stations instead (Corpus Christi). However, I was stationed with an IP at Fort Rucker that did enter the CG as a DCA and went to the HT's as his first assignment.

Just my 2 cents....

 

[zippy]

I think unrestricted in this sense means can fly both fixed and rotary wing.

 

[USCGaviator]

I think unrestricted in this sense means can fly both fixed and rotary wing.

OK, I think I follow you now. The CG is not really concerned with this. If the CG decides that they want to take a "pure" helo guy (e.g. an ex-Army pilot with no FW training) and turn him into a Falcon pilot, they send him to our Aviation Training Center in Mobile, AL and run him through the 6-week Falcon Transition course (the same logic applies for the C-130). When he completes the course he is designated a CP in that airframe. The CG does not do this with new DCA's - helo guys will be helo guys initially.

For example, my current Ops Boss is a Falcon pilot. What was his background? He was an OH-58 pilot in the Army (no FW training). Came into the CG as a DCA flying HH-65's and at some point transitioned into the HU-25 (I can't remember when).

I also have a friend that was a WO in the Army flying helos. He came into the CG as a DCA and completed 2 tours flying the HH-65. After the second tour he transitioned into the C-130 and has been flying it ever since.

The reverse of this, FW --> RW, is also true.

 

[Gatordev]

USCGaviator:

It is possible that I either misunderstood, or more likely, I just remembered what he said incorrectly. As for the "unrestricted" Naval Aviator comment, it's a term that gets thrown around some times meaning that as a Marine or Navy Aviator, you're both qualified in fixed-wing and rotary, and can therefore do anything or go anywhere (obviously, in theory). An example of why that's a neat thing to flaunt/advertise/feel good about is an IP here in Primary who was a helo pilot, but was stationed w/ the A-4 agressor squadron in PR. Since he was qual'ed, he could fly in both (although in his case, he was never an A/C for the A-4). There's other such public relations items for the community, but you get the idea. It's not a dig on anyone (well, maybe the Army), it's just something that gives (most) helo Naval Aviators something to brag about at the club to their fixed-wing buddies.

@SarDaddy:

You definitely misunderstood my post. What I was saying was that, because you didn't go through our Primary (or advanced), I can understand why some may not think you worthy of the gold wings. I WAS NOT saying I thought that, and to further illustrate that, I mentioned the flying conditions you guys fly in. I guess a corollary to all this is would you want to wear gold wings after wearing your Army ones? I'm sure you were proud of the Army ones. I would have a hard time giving up my gold wings if I went to the AF, because I'm proud of them, but in the end, it's still a flying job and it's all flair anyway. Lastly, your comment about Army/CG aviators training new Naval Aviators is an amusing point, and, IMO, furthers the idea that it's a stupid debate.

Hopefully that cleared up any confusion and made clear that there was ZERO disrespect meant in my post.

 

[sardaddy]

No disrespect taken at all. Didn't think it for a minute. Like I said, the sentence just seemed contradictory, I didn't think you were taking a shot.

As for wearing my old wings, at first I kept seeing if there was a way to bend uniform regs so I could wear both or maybe a way to wear the one of my choosing on any given day but no luck. Eventually that wore off and the Army wings ended up in my little trinket box. In a few years they will be joined by my gold ones when I leave this fine institution. They will just look funny if I wear them with my t-shirts and flipflops. Which will be the uniform of choice after retirement.

 

[Elder]

Well, Sardaddy & USCGAviator.. I think you both misunderstood me and my intentions.

Not knocking my co-workers, but I think I have one of the smaller egos at my unit.

I completely recognize I am a newbie co-pilot.. which is why I pointed out when I winged and when I qual'ed. I could have easily mis-represented myself and hidden those facts. Among other C-130 pilots, I probably know the least about the plane. Again, a fact I routinely point out to the AC's I fly with.

I wasn't really "complaining" about collaterals.. not more than anyone else does. We all know they're part of the job, and I think we would agree, for the most part, we'd rather fly than do collaterals. Granted, I've had rewarding collaterals in the past.

I don't on a daily basis swoop down and save people or chase bad guys.. as a matter of fact, I have been in on the saving of only 10 lives. Again, I'm not bragging as I'm sure you helo guys have a ton more than that. I'm just saying that I've only been qual'ed 6 months and I thought rewarding missions would be far and few between.

I think the reason you guys took my post wrong is generally in discussion forums, I type like I talk. I type with far more excitement than with ego. Most things I throw out are "FYI", "this is where I'm coming from", or "this is my background". When I was typing my post, it wasn't my intent to come across as "Check me out! I rock!" .. going back to mentioned my recent qual, again, was to point say, "Dude, I'm brand spanking new and these are the things I'm doing and seeing and I love it."

In reference to the "Demo team" under my avatar.. I assumed everyone knew it was a joke.. I saw the picture of the 130 on a web site.. the angle was funny and the plane appeared to be in a steep climb.. thought it was humerous to add the comment. And for those non-Coasties reading - NO, we do not have a C-130 Demonstration Team. And if we did, I would be the least qualified for it.

-Brad