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Consequences for Veterans and/or retirees in the 2021 DC Riots

BigRed389 said:
Depends what you're asking.
If you're thinking I believe lack of civics knowledge excuses their behavior, I don't.
The ones chanting "Hang Pence" - I find them absolutely repulsive, mobs are fickle and they may as well be chanting "Hang Trump" next and I consider them to be treasonous pieces of shit.

The only point I'm making there is that in their mind, they probably thought they were following the orders of the CinC which might lead a defense that they thought they were following legitimate orders. Which I think might change something as far as intent ie knowingly in a rebellion vs being a fucking moron.
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Yeah, the “I was just following orders” defense didn’t work out too well at Nuremberg. It’s also hard to seriously argue that violently storming the seat of our legislative branch of government could under any circumstances be considered a legitimate thing to be told to do by anyone in authority. The courts are going to have a field day with these cases. Many people are going to go away for a long time.
 
RedFive said:
maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm underestimating these assholes at the Capitol.
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What do you think the intent of the mob was? I’d urge you to take a deeper dive into the motives of these participating groups. Listen to what they say, then re-evaluate what they were there to do.
 
Soooooo if you get recalled to active duty to face a court martial* and that runs for a month or so, does that affect your high-3 calculation for your monthly retainer** pay? I mean it should, right?

Just thinking outside the box a little on this one. (Checks personal calendar, 20th looks open...) uh asking for a friend.


JUST KIDDING!

* martial/marshal, like capitol/capital or hangar/hanger
** it's not retirement pay, it's retainer
 
Brett327 said:
What do you think the intent of the mob was?
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Surely nothing good -- calling for the Vice President's head is abhorrent and a complete affront to the Republic. If this was pre-meditated and organized, then it is a much more serious situation. If it was a protest which turned into an opportunistic mob, that is something else. Shitty and fucked up, but still something else. Perhaps it was pre-meditated, in which case, fuck them. But it was shit planning if that's the case.

Brett327 said:
Listen to what they say, then re-evaluate what they were there to do.
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I hesitate to go down this rabbit hole because I find a lot of peace in avoiding too much political news intake....but maybe it's good to see what the crazies are saying. Where? Got any links?
 
RedFive said:
Surely nothing good -- calling for the Vice President's head is abhorrent and a complete affront to the Republic. If this was pre-meditated and organized, then it is a much more serious situation. If it was a protest which turned into an opportunistic mob, that is something else. Shitty and fucked up, but still something else. Perhaps it was pre-meditated, in which case, fuck them. But it was shit planning if that's the case.


I hesitate to go down this rabbit hole because I find a lot of peace in avoiding too much political news intake....but maybe it's good to see what the crazies are saying. Where? Got any links?
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There has been lots of reporting on this by reporters who live in the alt right chat rooms. There’s no question this was premeditated.
Here’s just one example. https://www.npr.org/sections/congre...ans-to-storm-capitol-were-made-in-plain-sight
 
Brett327 said:
Yeah, the “I was just following orders” defense didn’t work out too well at Nuremberg. It’s also hard to seriously argue that violently storming the seat of our legislative branch of government could under any circumstances be considered a legitimate thing to be told to do by anyone in authority. The courts are going to have a field day with these cases. Many people are going to go away for a long time.
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I don't disagree they need to have the book thrown at them. Just saying some may go away for longer than others.

And magnanimity in sentencing to those like bullhorn guy who tried to settle the crowd down wouldn't be a bad thing.

It's the groups like the Oathkeepers that need to have the hammer dropped on them hard.
I also dislike referring to them as far right, because it tends to trigger a defensive reflex in "the right." These backyard militia dudes are not political - they're right up there with Antifa.
 
BigRed389 said:
I also dislike referring to them as far right, because it tends to trigger a defensive reflex in "the right." These backyard militia dudes are not political - they're right up there with Antifa.
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The correct political science term is reactionary. They are reactionaries. (And, violent reactionaries.)
Ref:

Reactionary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Also, it would help everyone in America to understand that right-left is not a straight line, but rather a circle, where the further you go around the circle in either direction, it meets up with groups that went the other way.
 
Hair Warrior said:
The correct political science term is reactionary. They are reactionaries. (And, violent reactionaries.)
Ref:

Reactionary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Also, it would help everyone in America to understand that right-left is not a straight line, but rather a circle, where the further you go around the circle in either direction, it meets up with groups that went the other way.
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Someone prepared for this discussion by cracking their Poli-Sci 101 textbook last night!

First things first, it would help everyone in America to understand that there are three branches of government... and to be able to name them all. Something less than half of Americans are able to do, apparently.
 
Brett327 said:
Someone prepared for this discussion by cracking their Poli-Sci 101 textbook last night!

First things first, it would help everyone in America to understand that there are three branches of government... and to be able to name them all. Something less than half of Americans are able to do, apparently.
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I don’t disagree.

If someone asked me to draw the line between reactionary and conservative, the reactionary is willing to break the law and/or use violence to achieve their political objectives, whereas the conservative isn’t.

Same for radical and liberal, the radical is willing to break the law and/or use violence to achieve their political objectives. The liberal isn’t. So, it’s fair to label some (not all) BLM/Antifa as radicals if they took part in violent riots or extra-political takeover of power (CHAD/CHAZ).

And if the political spectrum is a circle, with the 12 o’clock position being a centrist, the ultra-radicals and ultra-reactionaries meet in the middle (at the 6 o’clock position) where they are both basically promoting anarchy. The ultra-reactionaries in this case who invaded the Capitol wanted to completely subvert and overturn the lawful due process, and therefore, the elected government.

As a comparison, the legal fight of Bush-Gore in 2000 did not involve radicals and reactionaries, because it all played out in the courts and not in street violence.
 
Brett327 said:
First things first, it would help everyone in America to understand that there are three branches of government... and to be able to name them all. Something less than half of Americans are able to do, apparently.
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Today is your lucky day (0:10-0:20):

 
Brett327 said:
What do you think the intent of the mob was? I’d urge you to take a deeper dive into the motives of these participating groups. Listen to what they say, then re-evaluate what they were there to do.
Click to expand...

I would argue the second biggest failure that day, next to Capitol security, was the lack of an actual message once inside. All of this time and energy, penetrating security, risking injury/arrest/death, and all that really came out of it was people making Tik-Tok selfies wearing a buffalo head. Kind of seems like it's the right's equivalent to stealing a new iMac from a retailer's storefront.
 
Gatordev said:
I would argue the second biggest failure that day, next to Capitol security, was the lack of an actual message once inside. All of this time and energy, penetrating security, risking injury/arrest/death, and all that really came out of it was people making Tik-Tok selfies wearing a buffalo head. Kind of seems like it's the right's equivalent to stealing a new iMac from a retailer's storefront.
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But it was an armed insurrection
 
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