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Choosing NFO or pilot pipeline (+ bonus: High Flight Threadjack)

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The Chief

Retired
Contributor
... back to the boat ....

Boat? Boat?Boat?You denigrate my ship, my castle? It is a proud Ship of the Line, often defiled by the puddle-jumpsters.:eek: :eek: :eek:

But to quote some famous airdale from some obscure venue: "Gentelmen, just remember, when it is all over we are on the same team".:)
 

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
You pretty much nailed it. Keep charging!
I knew I didn't like you... ;)

Boat? Boat?Boat?You denigrate my ship, my castle? It is a proud Ship of the Line, often defiled by the puddle-jumpsters.:eek: :eek: :eek:
You know, my wife says the same thing... All I hear is "blah, blah, blah... Submarines are boats, blah, blah, blah..." Then I smile and refer to an LHD/LHA as a boat again with the knowledge that:

ship of the line
n. pl. ships of the line
A warship having at least two gun decks, armed powerfully enough to take a position in the line of battle.

Sorry, that's not an amphib. An amphib's a boat! :D
 

Crowbar

New Member
None
matteo said:
it must be just a "ground" Marine thing.

Yes, you'll find aviators have zero sense of humor. Seriously, though, if you haven't already, read "Hammer From Above" and see if you still have the same perspective on assault support pilots.

Looks like you just came across wrong in the original post. Don't sweat it, just don't keep doing it or you'll end up getting abused.

Now, is there a Marine NFO out there that might have some extra advice, it would be greatly appreciated?

There's a few of those malcontents around here. What do you want to know?
 

matteo

New Member
To Crowbar:

Namely, what the NFO training pipeline is. How many guys in your class? How many went Prowler vs. Hornet? What is the long term career path for a NFO, a lot NFO 06's out there? Last but not least, how many Marine NFO's have you seen successfully compete and get a SNA slot later in on their career...and did they stay in their community? These are just some of the things that come to mind...thanks.
 

FMRAM

Combating TIP training AGAIN?!
O my god!! You all should be ashamed of yourselves. What ever happened to having thick skin? Give the guy a break. Matteo if you want to call me a knuckle-dragging grease monkey, then go ahead...I won't get offended.
 

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Boat? Boat?Boat?You denigrate my ship, my castle? It is a proud Ship of the Line, often defiled by the puddle-jumpsters.:eek: :eek: :eek:

But to quote some famous airdale from some obscure venue: "Gentelmen, just remember, when it is all over we are on the same team".:)
Yes chief, it's a BOAT. Always has been, always will be. At least to a hard-core Airdale !!!
:icon_carn
 

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Anyway, thank you for the rotary pilot perspective, that's what I was looking for. Now, is there a Marine NFO out there that might have some extra advice, it would be greatly appreciated? Or maybe a Prowler or Hornet driver that could spill a little background about there experiences in the training pipeline. Also, another helo question, how far along in helo training to you select/get selected for aircraft? Is it as narrow as jet selection?

. . . . now, much nicer approach, with a much more receptive response !

O my god!! You all should be ashamed of yourselves. What ever happened to having thick skin? Give the guy a break. Matteo if you want to call me a knuckle-dragging grease monkey, then go ahead...I won't get offended.

. . . . . no, it's about a little deference to those that have gone before you, that's all !!
;)
 

Crowbar

New Member
None
There's been a lot of other posts that detail what we go through, but I'll sum it up here.

Primary (T-6)
3 contact sims-EPs, how to run checklists, radio procedures
6 contact flights-fam flights, emergencies, spins, aerobatics, basic flying
4 instrument sims-IFR navigation and procedures
7 instruments flights-same

Intermediate (T-6)
5 instrument sims-same as before, but done at higher TAS and altitude
9 instrument flights-same, often used for cross countries
6 VNAV flights-VFR flying, navigating off points on the ground vice navaids. Timing and wind analysis become important during these flights. Rumor is that there will be VNAV sims in the near future.
4 form flights-two basic form flights to see how two airplanes fly together. Two flights (usually an out and in to Hattiesburg) on a low level route.
Intermediate (T-1)
4 instrument flights-same as before but faster, higher, and doing high approaches
3 low levels-same as VNAVs but now on established MTRs and you have a radalt to help you stay at 500'
1 checkride-a combo of the two, do a low level out towards Baton Rouge, then climb up into the flight levels, show that you know how to do the airnav stuff and come home

Advanced (T-39)
1 EP/airnav sim- (airnav=ANAV=INAV=instrument) get lots of EPs thrown at you, make sure you know how to set up the equipment, run checklists, IFR navigation
2 airnav flights-try to get a sweet cross county here
3 RSTs (radar navigation sims)-use the air to ground radar to navigate around the countryside. You'll start up high (~12k') learning what things look like on the scope.
3 RNs (radar nav flights)-same as the sims, but the radar doesn't work as good
2 low levels-same as before but 60kts faster, radar only used to avoid thunderstorms and such
Strike Timing Sim-you'll learn how to take off from Pensacola and get to an entry point for a low level route in South Carolina or somewhere equally far away, and hit that point within two minutes. Closer if you're good
Strike Radar Sim-apply what you've learned thus far. Take off from NPA, fly to the entry point within the specified time, fly the route using the radar and procedures you've been taught, then normally get an emergency off the route and have to divert
3 strike flights-strikes are a combination of RN and LL. The legs alternate, for instance, you might hit the entry point (Pt A) then have to find B using the radar. Then find C looking outside, no radar. Then find D using the radar, no looking outside. And so on. You hack the clock when you start the route and are trying to hit your time on target based on the elapsed time.
3 CSTs (composite simulator trainer)-up to this point in training during low levels you were expected to stay on the 'black line', the straight line between your turnpoints. In comps you are allowed and expected to get off the black line, use terrain masking, and take shortcuts along the route to make your time on target. For comps you can use any method available, radar, visual, TACAN point to point (if you can receive a TACAN station that low). The difference between strikes and comps is that in strikes you used elapsed time, a stopwatch if you will, to measure your timing. In comps, you will brief a real world time, "Our target is the dam on the southwest side of this lake, TOT is 1347:00." You still need to get to the entry point within 5 minutes of your entry time to stay legal but once on the route you do what you need to do to make TOT. Except slow down. Or make a victory lap over the IP to kill time. For CST-3X you show up that morning and are given the route. You have three hours to plan it and brief.
5 comp flights-see above. For CST-5X you show up and are given the route that morning. You have three hours to plan it and brief. Comp flights are done at 500' so the radar isn't as effective. You have to learn how to use terrain as your friend not only to get around the route but so you can use the radar to find your next point.
4 reattack sims-air to air stuff, bogey on a known heading, known airspeed. You put them on collision, shoot 'em in the face, then get behind them and shoot 'em in the ass.
2 reattack flights-more of the same, but the radar doesn't work as good as in the sim
SELECTION
(If you go Hornets you do more fighter stuff, but I didn't so I can't expound on it.)
Advanced (T-2)
4 basic instrument sims-you actually hand fly the sim to build up your scan
2 EP sims-go through all of the boldface items and a few non-boldface emergencies
3 radio instrument sims-same airnav/INAV stuff as before, but with one TACAN and one UHF radio
3 fam flights-basic procedures, out of control flight demos
2 section low levels-a pair of T-2s, 500', doing a low level, building your skills in how to operate as a section
6 basic fighter maneuver (BFM) flights-basics of how to fight a jet, more out of control flight demos, offensive, defensive maneuvers
1 division flight-four jets, gun pattern, division break, etc etc

That's the pipeline, post API.

We had two Marines start with me. We ended up selecting about a month apart. I got Prowlers, he got Hornets. I was the only Marine in my selection class and the only Marine who got winged that month. Typically there's about 1-2 Marines per month who select and go on to get winged.

For the moment, the projections are about 50/50 Hornet/Prowler but that's a projection. Lately it's been hit or miss as to who does and who doesn't do SERE or the centrifuge. Money issues.

There have been some NFO Generals in the past.

The field accession board usually picks up 1-2 NFOs per year to become SNAs. I don't personally know anybody who has done it. I do know some who became NFOs or pilots after starting out in some other MOS, but no NFO to NA folks.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
The field accession board usually picks up 1-2 NFOs per year to become SNAs. I don't personally know anybody who has done it. I do know some who became NFOs or pilots after starting out in some other MOS, but no NFO to NA folks.

They are out there. I think there were three going through VT-27 when I was there and another two on the way, making for 5 all togather selected that year. It seems like competition for those slots was very competative. Of the three two selected jets, and the third selected herks (his first choice).
 

Crowbar

New Member
None
making for 5 all togather selected that year.

For a couple of years there were five each year. For FY02, 04 and 07, two NFOs were selected each year to become SNAs. FY03 had one. That averages out to 2.83(repeating of course)/year over the last six years.

I just saw where I made a mistake, referring to it as the field accession board. That's what picks people from other MOSs and makes them SNAs or SNFOs. The transition/conversion board turns NFOs into SNAs and lets pilots switch platforms.
 

matteo

New Member
Age?

That is exactly what I was looking for as far as what to expect, thanks. Is there an age cut off for the NFO to SNA board? I only ask because I will be roughly 27-28ish by the time I start my first tour as an NFO...if I went that route.
 

scotty008

Back at last
pilot
My form partner was one of five for the past year... he is 28, and the oldest according to him was 30 at time of application. Nothing official, of course. Based on your age, why nor just apply for a pilot slot?
 

BoaisyJon

Point of parliamentary procedure!
, and if you're dead set on Jets, don't go into the Marine Corps, go into the Air Force.

So I've now been a member for more than a month without so much as a comment since I learned to use the search function (you get reminded pretty quick when you ask about childhood asthma for the fiftieth time).

Why exactly is this the case? I'm aware that the Air Force has more jets, but don't they also take more student aviators? Thank you for your replies.

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[SIZE=-1] "For of those to whom much is given, much is required"[/SIZE]
 
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