Carrier training

[A4sForever]

This is all so funny. When I was at Meridian it was fly the radalt, by the good LSO's, at the field, the boat, whatever. .....

Nope .... it's not "funny" .... but it's a good basis for a serious discussion of how to fly the boat/ball .... and that's always worth the time. And "good" LSO's ... ??? Tell me, how do you know what constitutes a "good" one ... ??? Unless you have @ 150-200 traps (i.e., seen a lot) and/or ARE an LSO --- you don't have a CLUE as to what constitutes a good or bad LSO --- sorry to burst your bubble, but after you call the ball, you're just along for the ride (LSO-wise) and the "Wave" when it comes to judging who's a competent or "good" LSO ....

Like I said, there's good and bad LSO's .... and some are just plain lazy. We yanked the quals of 2-3 LSO's in my AirWings because they were not "good". It sure suprised their squadron CO's. I'm not trying to pat myself on the back, but I know what I'm talking about when it comes to waving...... ... and I also know that not very many of you on this forum do . There's no room for slack or "other" opinions in that department --- and why you ask --- ??? --- why doesn't your opinion "count" ... ??? Because you (90% of Naval Aviators) don't know the first thing about controlling a pass at the ship nor what you're talking about when it comes to waving. That's just the way it is ..... doesn't mean you're a "bad" person or a "bad" pilot.

I don't fly the T-45 ... nor do I fly the FA-18 ( I just used to "shoot" FA-18's down when flying Adversary ) ...... soooooooooooo...... maybe the RADALT is a good choice these days. I'd be a fool or an idiot if I just said "NEVER"!!! I just doubt it --- BARO first, RADALT as a crosscheck/backup. Fly instruments at the boat --- even in the daytime. I have not a clue as to the "gee-whiz" stuff that helps you get aboard the boat --- we didn't have it and had to do it the 'HARD' way .

But "funny" .... Naaaaaaa, and I'm sure you didn't mean that --- 'cause then you'd be an idiot --- and since you're a Naval Aviator (right?) --- I'm sure you're not.

 

[Blacky]

Ouch! A4s is knocking them out of the sky left and right! Remind me never to question you...

But seriously, I agree that it does make a good discussion as to which altimeter to use. In the pattern I felt more comfortable using the RADALT, but forces beyond my control (ie the yoke) in the E-2 do not permit me to put it in my regular scan. I wonder why there is such a difference in what LSO's are teaching nowadays. Perhaps this should be addressed further outside of this forum if it is making a difference out there...

 

[pilot_man]

OK, first, the "good LSO" comment was directed at "fly". It is hilly around Meridian and flying the baro gives many different AGL's, runway dependent. (Screw the pine trees) He needs to look at who is giving him the info. A C-2 guy(no offense to those who are ), who had no hud, or a hornet guy who did.

Now to the "funny" part, if I may sir. This whole discussion started about flying the same #'s, bla, bla, bla...
Please sir, don't take this the wrong way, but the idea of an old dog and new tricks came to mind. The "salty" ones would tell us not to fly the radalt, nor the E bracket on the HUD, cause you just can't trust them. Well, the hornet's primary inst. is the HUD. Pattern is Radalt. And we use the E bracket. I'm a firm believer that change is good.

As for the pattern alt.'s here, they suck. 1500- brk, 1000- pattern, 800- 180, for the space shuttle approach.

 

[Fly Navy]

OK, first, the "good LSO" comment was directed at "fly". It is hilly around Meridian and flying the baro gives many different AGL's, runway dependent. (Screw the pine trees) He needs to look at who is giving him the info. A C-2 guy(no offense to those who are ), who had no hud, or a hornet guy who did.

This LSO is a Tomcat guy. We trusted him (not like we know any better....)

I'd akin flying the RADALT at Meridian in the pattern to flying a constant 500 feet off the RADALT on a mountainous low-level... it'd be constant up and down. You remember the terrain here...

 

[nittany03]

WRT the E-bracket, I was told by one of my IPs (Hornet or Harrier type I believe) that the reason they teach us not to fly it in the T-45 is because the movement is not damped. So bumpy air down low or Fam student-type corrections cause it to fly all over the place and make you chase it.

 

[Fly Navy]

WRT the E-bracket, I was told by one of my IPs (Hornet or Harrier type I believe) that the reason they teach us not to fly it in the T-45 is because the movement is not damped. So bumpy air down low or Fam student-type corrections cause it to fly all over the place and make you chase it.

Yep, gusty winds and such make that thing go crazy.

 

[BOMBSonHAWKEYES]

I was told that we were an MSL peoples

 

[Squid]

WRT the E-bracket, I was told by one of my IPs (Hornet or Harrier type I believe) that the reason they teach us not to fly it in the T-45 is because the movement is not damped. So bumpy air down low or Fam student-type corrections cause it to fly all over the place and make you chase it.

but I'll be damned if I didn't try all through fams

 

[squeeze]

All I know is I flew the radalt at the boat, and qual'd. That's all that matters to my never-going-to-fly-another-fresnel-lens-again ass.

Still flies initial-inbound on the radalt.

 

[Paddles]

Every pilot will have their own technique on what to scan at the boat. The key is to figure out what works for you. LSOs preach to use all of the available info at your disposal and decipher how your approach turn is going from that. I use the Radalt (and the window) at both the field and the boat, but you didn't hear me say that.

The purpose of FCLPs is to practice the approach turn, speed up your scan, and consistently get to good starts. Same thing with flying the ball, meatball, lineup, AOA. Flying the ball at the field will never be the same as behind the boat. Those with day quals congrats, it'll be way more challenging at night.

 

[Jedj]

I cant speak for all platforms, but if you are a hornet type you will use radalt to the HUD and you will fly the E bracket. I personally, especially at night, put the velocity vector in the crotch at the start and then start flying the ball from there. Especially if you hear '99 working MOVLAS station 1' but if you hear that during CQ something has gone terribly wrong.

 

[Fly Navy]

I cant speak for all platforms, but if you are a hornet type you will use radalt to the HUD and you will fly the E bracket. I personally, especially at night, put the velocity vector in the crotch at the start and then start flying the ball from there. Especially if you hear '99 working MOVLAS station 1' but if you hear that during CQ something has gone terribly wrong.

Timehack for A4sForever...

 

[A4sForever]

Timehack for A4sForever...

Naaaaaaa ..... I love all you boys. Seriously. Even those who disagree with me. (Are you out there .... punk .... pilot_man ????) Especially since I've had four (4) Mai'Tai's tonight .... which is one (1) past my "limit" .... but nevertheless, what's it all about????

Flying the ball @ USS Boat .... doing it well and safely .... or do I exaggerate ???

Times change and so does technology ... if the RADALT is better in YOUR airplanes these days --- were I your LSO --- I might be preaching "RADALT" as the primary instrument ..... "old dogs and new tricks" .... Puuuuhhhh-- leaaaaaaasssse !!! I'm a techno-freak and I subscribe to the newest and latest --- but only IF IT WORKS !!!! So 'if' RADALT is primo and "reliable" today --- why would I deny it's use ??? I'm not from Missouri, but I've got to be shown, that's all.

I gotta disagree with "Paddles" on one point, however (and I agree with the rest of your post, en toto) . Every pilot does NOT make up his own "plan" on what to scan .... there's a "right" way and a "wrong" way. I know, I know, in reality, they probably do ..... but that's NOT what you teach. You teach 'em how to do it the "right" way .... the way that works, gets the highest (safe) boarding rate, and kills the least amount of people. If "they" do it another way and there IS a problem .... then at least the "SPEEDIE" board will have a place to start, assuming there is a body to talk to .....

E-Bracket ... HUD .... velocity vectors .... "crotch" .... what the hell is that crap ??? .... O.K. I know what "crotch" means .....

But "old dogs and new tricks" .... scratch that ..... if I could .... I would take the 747 all the way from HNL to Tokyo @ 500' ASL and do a 50' knife-edge pass @ the NRT tower .... or at Whidbey. If anything .... the "times" are not up to MY standards ......

 

[kmac]

E-Bracket ... HUD .... velocity vectors .... "crotch" .... what the hell is that crap ???

That's what I'm saying! Who needs that sh*t? And the Hornet guys with the straight-in for no HUD, puhhhleeeasssse.

 

[bunk22]

I've got some experience here, with about 220 COD traps from the left seat, 10 whole T-2C traps, over 300 traps from the right and coming aboard over 100 times at night (left and right). It's difficult to get mulitple traps as a COD driver. Some recent aircraft commanders and first sea duty types left with under 100 traps. I'm a former LSO but only got my Squadron qual prior to C-2's ceasing the night flying program at the boat. Anyway, we train guys to hit their numbers at the field. Like has been said, 600' at the 180, 450' at the 90, etc, etc. We (as COD drivers) stress meatball, line-up, AOA. Line-up is simply critical in our aircraft, with it's 71' wingspan. We teach to be about .8 miles abeam the ship. We use the baro altimeter with the radalt as back-up. As we gain experience, some us develop habits that work well for us. I don't need to look at the tacan for abeam and I usually only look at my altimeter twice, at the 180 and 90. The main little instrument I use when flying at the boat, other than AOA, is the VSI. I glance at that several times during my pass. Once in close to at the ramp, I spot the ramp, close my eyes, suck and chuck. It all works out

I agree with A4's that the boat and the field are night and day. Doing well at the field doesn't mean squat at the boat. Knowing how to fly the ball is important but scan is equally important, at least in my community. At the field, there is gouge and not much of a pucker factor. Unless of course you're flying at the rock at night, then of course the boat prepares you for the rock.