Carrier training

[dodge]

Forgive my lack of knowledge/experience, but what is the process to train/practice to land on the boat in the T-45. I can see having a mock carrier deck with wires to simulate the landing (if that is the case) but how would you practice the approach and landing on a moving object before actually heading out to the boat.

In the lineup are you crabbed to account for the forward motion of the boat? how does this work. What kind of configuration are you set up in.

Just curious. Any insight from those in/completed Jet training would be appreciated.

Thank ya.

 

[Punk]

The wires you see at the field are for emergencies only, not for carrier practice.

But the carrier "box" is. Jet guys do what are called Field Carrier Landing Practice (FCLP's) with an LSO grading our passes. This is done two different times, at the end of Phase I (before we start our tactical stuff) and then CQ FCLP where we ramp up and get ready for the boat (usually the last thing you do, but not always). The last period is also a test for the pilots, the LSO's can decide by your performance in those periods if we are ready for the boat.

Unfortunately, there's no real way to simulate the movement of the boat. You just have to figure it out pretty fast when you're out there, and its really not that hard. But you fly the same exact numbers at the field that you do at the boat (except up here in Whidbey, sucks).

The angled deck thing takes alittle bit geting used to, but you figure it fast again.

All passes are flown boards out, gear down (no kidding), and full flaps. To qual, you make 10 arrested landing (traps) and 4 touch-and-go's (leave the hook up). Out of those, you have to get a 2.4 GPA with a 60% boarding rate or better.

Pass grades:

OK, 4.0, almost a perfect pass
Fair, 3.0, some deviations but not bad
Bolter, 2.5, safe pass, but you missed the wires
No Grade, 2.0, alot of deviations (usually a fly through down), but safe pass
Waveoff, 1.0, pass was not safe and the LSO told you to try again
Cut, 0.0, dangerous, almost killed yourself, you're going home

that's it in a nutshell, I'm leaving out alot, but alot here can chime in

 

[kmac]

And just to add onto Punk's...

Notice that he said the field uses the same numbers. In other words, for altitude, you generally have the same altitude (AGL) to the ground at any given point in the approach turn as you would to the carrier. Therefore the full 180 degree approach turn is the same at either the field or carrier. Since the ship is moving relatively from left to right (relative to centerline, due to the angled deck), it's just like having a continual left to right crosswind (excluding the port/axial/starboard wind conditions). Instead of crabbing though, there are regular wing dips to adjust your course. That is of course except for the E-2, which looks pretty goofy coming into land.

 

[brd2881]

To add to kmac:
The approach turn is all about getting to a good "start" at the ship or at the field. The "start" is where you essentially begin the total scan of meatball, lineup and AOA... and you pretty much drop altitude out of your scan at that point because flying the ball will keep you on a precise glideslope. Getting to a good start is of supreme importance because you can arrive with a centered "ball" or "meatball" in the fresnel lens at the correct AOA and as a result you have a known energy state of your jet. This concept greatly increases your chances of a solid pass. Prior to carrier qual you will have broken down the approach turn into very small pieces and will study it very closely, such that when you go to the boat or you are on a fclp checkride that you almost don't have to think about the corrections you have to make in the pattern, or the approach turn for that matter, to get to a solid start.

 

[NavyLonghorn]

Im pretty mad at you T-45 bubbas. I was trying to bounce at Orange Grove today... and.. seriously.. where the hell is the centerline mixed in with that whole freaking mess of tire tread?

 

[Punk]

Im pretty mad at you T-45 bubbas. I was trying to bounce at Orange Grove today... and.. seriously.. where the hell is the centerline mixed in with that whole freaking mess of tire tread?

I don't know, use the force maybe

or how about you look down the runway alittle further

 

[Fly Navy]

I don't know, use the force maybe

or how about you look down the runway alittle further

No sh!t... lineup is down the runway, not at your intended point of landing :icon_tong

 

[Punk]

No sh!t... lineup is down the runway, not at your intended point of landing :icon_tong

two points for this man

and no, they're weren't reputation points, just good ol' Punk points, redemable at any war zone where we're covering your a$$

 

[NavyLonghorn]

Look, you can take your "details" and "proper flying techniques" and shove em.

 

[A4sForever]

The field is the same "numbers" (???) as the ship ??? When did that start ??? Maybe I'm just missing something here ....

What's your altitude @ the 180 at the field?? At the ship??? How fast is the field "moving" away from you then you roll into the groove ??? What is the glideslop @ the field ??? At the ship ??? What's the roll angle at the field ??? At the ship ??? Blah, blah, blah .....

Sheesh ......

 

[Fly Navy]

The field is the same "numbers" (???) as the ship ??? When did that start ??? Maybe I'm just missing something here ....

What's your altitude @ the 180 at the field?? At the ship??? How fast is the field "moving" away from you then you roll into the groove ??? What is the glideslop @ the field ??? At the ship ??? What's the roll angle at the field ??? At the ship ??? Blah, blah, blah .....

Sheesh ......

And this is why I didn't make a comment, even with my limited FCLP phase 1 knowledge.... I knew the LSO would come out on this one.... :icon_smil

 

[Punk]

The field is the same "numbers" (???) as the ship ??? When did that start ??? Maybe I'm just missing something here ....

What's your altitude @ the 180 at the field?? At the ship??? How fast is the field "moving" away from you then you roll into the groove ??? What is the glideslop @ the field ??? At the ship ??? What's the roll angle at the field ??? At the ship ??? Blah, blah, blah .....

Sheesh ......

Actually, we asked these very questions. Afterall, how could a 600' AGL 180 work at the boat seeing the flight deck is 60' above the water.

As far as I know (which is probably wrong) the roll angle of the lens at the field was 0. However, at the boat, the T-45 had a negative roll angle (-2.9 I want to say but can't remember, so you would see a red ball at the 45 if you were on your numbers). The glideslope was 3 degrees at the field. I know the glideslope at the boat was different, can't remember which way though. But because of the forward movement of the ship, you still got a perceived 3 degree glideslope.

The only difference between field and carrier ops (besides having a slight longer approach turn because of the angle) was that you had to time your 180 turn point off the abeam depending on the winds that day. Once you figured that out, you would get your 15-18 sec groove length. At the boat, once you saw the white of the rounddown, it was time to turn. Yes, you would feel high and tight at the 90 at the boat (I never did, weird, probably because I really didn't know what it was suppose to look like anyways), but because of the ship movement, you would get the proper groove length. But, this could be finessed depending on the ship's speed (faster it's steaming, sooner you turn, and vice versa).

All the numbers worked though: 600' abeam, 450' at the 90, 375-325' at the 45 (usually 340-350 worked the best for me at the boat).

Any other questions Mr. LSO

 

[Fly Navy]

Any other questions Mr. LSO

You're tempting the beast....

Hey Punk, did you have IFLOLS at KRock? Got it at Whidbey?

 

[Punk]

You're tempting the beast....

Hey Punk, did you have IFLOLS at KRock? Got it at Whidbey?

I know I am. It's all in good fun.

Yes we did, and the boat did too. But we only had two of them, so if they had recently changed the runways, we were on the old lens (made you feel like a rockstar until you went back to the new lens ). Same thing with Orange Grove, they had to constantly move it to the active runway.

I have no idea up here. I won't be in the plane for a loooong while. But the thing that sucks up here is because of noise abatement, we have to fly a 1000' pattern and the break is at 1500'. So much for training like you fight. Our OLF has even a higher pattern altitude. We gotta go to El Centro to fly a 600' pattern.

 

[Brett327]

You're tempting the beast....

Hey Punk, did you have IFLOLS at KRock? Got it at Whidbey?

Roger Whidbey.

Brett