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CAL FIRE

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
The reasons were the same as well regarding the blades and control algorithms/systems. If they haven't improved things for the charlie model, then they'll likely experience the same issues and failure rate.

It's a little more complicated than that. One had an issue with the landing system. It was flying just fine, but the autoland datalink hand-off wasn't working. They tried and tried, but couldn't get it to sync, so they did a control ditch. That one was the one strapped to the side of the ship for a bit. I know of at least another one where they think it encountered icing (or some sort of moisture accumulation issue). There was no way to know it was flying in the clouds at the time (it was enroute with no sensor active), and had a loss of control.

The earlier deployments (mid-2000's) had some control/software issues, but the system matured (relatively) by the ought-teens...or whatever we're calling that time period now.
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
Or allowing land/property owners to clear brush and do controlled burns? Uh, no . . . The state pushes the whole “Man made climate change” narrative hard. But they have prevented common sense mitigation measures for decades.
Problem is the controlled burn that turns into the uncontrolled burn when the weather guys get it wrong (always blame it on the weather guys). Nobody wants that on their resume.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Well, on my first deployment we were able to hoist it back on board via the boat davit. On my second deployment, it crashed off of a North African beach somewhere. We got put into River City for over a month because Lord forbid someone mention we lost a Fire Scout. Meanwhile, the locals had posted videos all over YouTube of the evil American helicopter drone being yeeted from the sky by Allah Himself and all of the wreckage that they recovered.



We lost one on each of my two deployments. Another was lost on the ship's final deployment. Every one of my friends on all of the Fire Scout FFGs lost one on deployment. So between 2012 and 2015, there were about 7 that were lost. The reasons were the same as well regarding the blades and control algorithms/systems. If they haven't improved things for the charlie model, then they'll likely experience the same issues and failure rate.
Jesus. This is not public knowledge - that's incredible. It's a Bell 407 for f*cks sake - a reliable and safe work horse.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Well, on my first deployment we were able to hoist it back on board via the boat davit. On my second deployment, it crashed off of a North African beach somewhere. We got put into River City for over a month because Lord forbid someone mention we lost a Fire Scout. Meanwhile, the locals had posted videos all over YouTube of the evil American helicopter drone being yeeted from the sky by Allah Himself and all of the wreckage that they recovered.



We lost one on each of my two deployments. Another was lost on the ship's final deployment. Every one of my friends on all of the Fire Scout FFGs lost one on deployment. So between 2012 and 2015, there were about 7 that were lost. The reasons were the same as well regarding the blades and control algorithms/systems. If they haven't improved things for the charlie model, then they'll likely experience the same issues and failure rate.
Man, you got to go experience some of the peak of Fire Scout lunacy. The program HAS changed since then both technically and personallity. Also, if I recall correctly, each of those mishaps happened for different reasons. Also, at some point, losing a Fire Scout isn't as big a deal as losing a manned aircraft since it is a drone. So, while it's not cheap, it is just a robot and not a cute one like R2 or BB-8. Maybe more like 3PO or Marvin.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Jesus. This is not public knowledge - that's incredible. It's a Bell 407 for f*cks sake - a reliable and safe work horse.
No, the events he's talking about happened with MQ-8Bs which is a Schweitzer derivative.

As gator mentioned most of these mishaps have to do with issues related to drone life and not airworthiness issues. Or to put it another way a perfectly good airplane was flown into icing or couldn't get back onboard mom when blue water.
 

AllAmerican75

FUBIJAR
None
Contributor
It's a little more complicated than that. One had an issue with the landing system. It was flying just fine, but the autoland datalink hand-off wasn't working. They tried and tried, but couldn't get it to sync, so they did a control ditch. That one was the one strapped to the side of the ship for a bit. I know of at least another one where they think it encountered icing (or some sort of moisture accumulation issue). There was no way to know it was flying in the clouds at the time (it was enroute with no sensor active), and had a loss of control.

Those were both my ship. The controlled ditch happened shortly before I arrived and they were in the middle of the mishap investigation when I came on board. I remember watching Air Boss collecting pee samples and medical paperwork to ship it back to the States for analysis (I wasn't privy to the details, just in the wardroom when he was packaging it up). That problem with getting back aboard reared its head again during our second deployment while doing flight ops for currency during the transLANT trip and happened to other ships. The fear around the one with icing (I sat through the weather brief and I'm doubtful) was that it was hit with a golden BB from the beach, which made life difficult for us onboard ship because they wanted us to keep quiet.


Man, you got to go experience some of the peak of Fire Scout lunacy. The program HAS changed since then both technically and personallity. Also, if I recall correctly, each of those mishaps happened for different reasons. Also, at some point, losing a Fire Scout isn't as big a deal as losing a manned aircraft since it is a drone. So, while it's not cheap, it is just a robot and not a cute one like R2 or BB-8. Maybe more like 3PO or Marvin.

Of the Fire Scout FFGs, we saw many of the same issues across the program. I bet many of the structural issues have been changed using a different helicopter model as the base but the support systems are what trouble me the most. I doubt that those have changed significantly, especially if there's no appetite within the program office to spend the cash to fix them. But as you said, this is part of the teething problems with drones and less with helicopters in general.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Or allowing land/property owners to clear brush and do controlled burns? Uh, no . . . The state pushes the whole “Man made climate change” narrative hard. But they have prevented common sense mitigation measures for decades.
Can you provide an example of CA law or policy that fits your statement? I’m just curious what you’re referring to.
 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Can you provide an example of CA law or policy that fits your statement? I’m just curious what you’re referring to.
I can’t speak for rob, but:

California Democrats think cattle and meat-eating are responsible for climate change, and that climate change is responsible for the wildfires in California. The Democrat Gov of CA created rules that hamper cattle ranchers and place blame on cows for climate change: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-climate-change-rules-on-cows-landfill-emissions/

Whereas, in reality, most scientific studies show that grassfed ruminant holistic grazing activity actually regenerates the soil, prevents wildfires, sequesters carbon into the soil, and enables the soil to retain more water (reducing the threat of fires):
https://ucanr.edu/?blogpost=29203&blogasset=102388
https://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=43618
 

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
Can you provide an example of CA law or policy that fits your statement? I’m just curious what you’re referring to.

Curious as well- especially since a large portion (more than 50%) of the forested areas of Ca are federal land and not owned or controlled by the state.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Back to the helicopter side, CALFIRE is hiring and the requirements are substantial.


Experience: Applicants must have logged at least 2,000 hours of pilot-in-command flying helicopters, which must include the following:
  1. At least 500 hours of mountain pilot-in-command helicopter flight time, routinely making landings in mountainous terrain above 4,000 feet MSL.
  2. At least 500 hours of turbine helicopter time as pilot-in- command.
  3. Two hundred and fifty hours as pilot-in-command of helicopters performing low level missions in fire control, map survey, powerline patrol, search and rescue, and spray or seeding operations over mountain or forested or comparable military operations.
  4. At least 100 hours as pilot-in-command in helicopters carrying sling loads.
  5. At least 50 hours as pilot-in-command in helicopters in the past year.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
Curious as well- especially since a large portion (more than 50%) of the forested areas of Ca are federal land and not owned or controlled by the state.
I’m not saying this is the major factor driving wildfires but I believe there are some pretty ridiculous restrictions on cutting or trimming certain trees, especially oaks. State and local rules.
 

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor



My brother, sister and mom currently live in Sacramento, we have family in South Lake Tahoe and the Bay Area. I'll post specific ordinances that have prevented common-sense land clearing soon . . . .
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
I’m not saying this is the major factor driving wildfires but I believe there are some pretty ridiculous restrictions on cutting or trimming certain trees, especially oaks. State and local rules.
From the NPS side, California is quick to file a lawsuit and injunction anytime a tree needs to be cut down or a trail altered.
 
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