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CAL FIRE

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
An old friend of mine (SH-3 & SH-60B Aircrewman & Rescue Swimmer) sent me these pictures of the contributions CAL FIRE is making with the fires out there. Apparently the new H-60 Firehawk is quite the aircraft.
 

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AllAmerican75

FUBIJAR
None
Contributor
Talk about probably the most competitive helo job out there, flying the S-70 for Cal Fire.

But how many guys get Broncos and Turbo Stoofs?

9b548cabb6c99a8254a628c3d4b780f3.jpg
 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Seeing those photos, I'm surprised we don't have rotary wing drones for forest firefighting. Seems like a perfect application for a firefighter variant of the MQ-8C, which has a pretty good payload capacity, endurance, and service ceiling. Also, takes humans out of the danger zone.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Seeing those photos, I'm surprised we don't have rotary wing drones for forest firefighting. Seems like a perfect application for a firefighter variant of the MQ-8C, which has a pretty good payload capacity, endurance, and service ceiling. Also, takes humans out of the danger zone.
I'm curious as to where they got their MQ-8C payload numbers from. They don't seem right.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Seeing those photos, I'm surprised we don't have rotary wing drones for forest firefighting. Seems like a perfect application for a firefighter variant of the MQ-8C, which has a pretty good payload capacity, endurance, and service ceiling. Also, takes humans out of the danger zone.
I’m aware of several USFS contracts in the PNW for retardant delivering UAS.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Yeah...that's what I was getting at. No one has ever done sling loading with an MQ-8 so it's not entirely accurate to say it has the capability. Yes, the 407 can sling that much but no one has developed or tested the capability of the MQ-8C to do an external lift. Not impossible but would take time and money to accomplish. Other options to carry retardent would also take time and money.
 

AllAmerican75

FUBIJAR
None
Contributor
Seeing those photos, I'm surprised we don't have rotary wing drones for forest firefighting. Seems like a perfect application for a firefighter variant of the MQ-8C, which has a pretty good payload capacity, endurance, and service ceiling. Also, takes humans out of the danger zone.

If the charlie model hasn't fixed the problems with the blades or any of the control issues, then the Fire Scout isn't ready for the difficult job of flying firefighting missions. There were multiple issues we had with the bravo model that would cause catastrophe in a dynamic environment like a wildfire.
 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
If the charlie model hasn't fixed the problems with the blades or any of the control issues, then the Fire Scout isn't ready for the difficult job of flying firefighting missions. There were multiple issues we had with the bravo model that would cause catastrophe in a dynamic environment like a wildfire.
Threadjack: Do EDOs work on the RDT&E of UAS platforms, or do AEDOs fill that role, or both, or neither?
I genuinely wonder if the "waypoint to waypoint" UAV Copter is enough fidelity to do Aerial Firefighting. Plus deconfliction at the water sources.
I doubt it. There would have to be a ton of AI and ML built into its little "robo-brain" to factor-in the WX, altitude deconfliction with other aircraft, rising smoke/heat that could toast the airframe or otherwise affect flight characteristics, power lines, all the things a human pilot must do. You would want the RDT&E team to have experience and expertise in "swarm"-type drone programming so that multiple aircraft could work in concert without running into each other or impede others operating in the airspace (e.g. manned platforms). Smart people are maybe already making these things a reality.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
If the charlie model hasn't fixed the problems with the blades or any of the control issues, then the Fire Scout isn't ready for the difficult job of flying firefighting missions. There were multiple issues we had with the bravo model that would cause catastrophe in a dynamic environment like a wildfire.
Hard to answer without knowing more specifics. The brain in the B and the C is the same because they're designed to both fly the same missions. Neither were designed to fly fire fighting missions. Frankly, from my limited understanding of how firebombing is done it's much more like CAS. MQ-8 was designed to hang out and be an ISR platform.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Yes, I do know that.

Hair Warrior, know your audience. Pags has some specific insight to the program, given who he works/worked for.

I doubt it. There would have to be a ton of AI and ML built into its little "robo-brain" to factor-in the WX, altitude deconfliction with other aircraft, rising smoke/heat that could toast the airframe or otherwise affect flight characteristics, power lines, all the things a human pilot must do.

FS is not autonomous. It's controlled by an operator, via a point and click interface (perhaps with some upgrades since the B). That said, it's interesting to watch some of the fire-bombing videos from years past, especially when a Guard aircraft is tasked with operations. They don't do it alone, cold. They tend to have a "FAC" they follow in to learn the approach, terrain, and technique of that particular location.

It's interesting to hear Brett mention he knows of UAS already being used. I don't think it's a stretch to learn that, but I can imagine there being some specific "tactics" to make UAS effective, for the various reasons that HW mentions (above in my quote).
 
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