Bought two new handguns today. Attn. A4s

[Fly Navy]

Same for me (minus the toothpick). For years I've just kept #8 shot in it, what with apartment life and all; but it's always reassuring to know that now should the mood strike me I can easily go to 000 buck in a 3" magnum to remove doors from the hinges ("I said 'Run' damn you!!").

I wouldn't trust my life to #8 shot. 4 Buck at a minimum. I understand the apartment issue though. If you're comfortable with it though, then by all means, don't change it.

The 92FS has a 15 rd clip of Black Talons (from before they were deemed "unpopular" by the media and made equally expensive by the ensuing hype). At the time they were just really nasty HPs. Whatever. A JHP by any other name...

MAGAZINE! MAGAZINE! MAGAZINE! (edited to say... "Magazine, sir")

Sorry. Now that I'm done spazzing out...

Keep your Black Talons as a collector, they're worth so much (for no good reason either). Don't believe too much hype, they were good, but not THAT good. There was a lot of crap made up about them. Go with Ranger-T if you want the modern version of them. They're MUCH more reliable and have an awesome track record.

 

[ControlledBurn]

I wouldn't trust my life to #8 shot. 4 Buck at a minimum. I understand the apartment issue though. If you're comfortable with it though, then by all means, don't change it.

Arfcom had a thread (Thread here) where someone threw mult. layers of drywall up, the #8 didn't even penetrate the 2nd wall, but the wad did. While I see this as good for not killing your roommate/wife/kids in the other room, with such a lack of power to penetrate two layers of drywall, is it really going to incapacitate an attacker?

Hell, I've seen my little brother break through two layers of drywall, and I wasn't afraid of him killing me at the time.


Also, another interesting box o' truth on Arfcom, http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=234486
Evidently Hydra-shoks aren't all they're cracked up to be for a JHP. I'm buying something else tomorrow night when I get home from Marathon. I'd do it tonight if the store didn't just close.

 

[Fly Navy]

Arfcom had a thread (Thread here) where someone threw mult. layers of drywall up, the #8 didn't even penetrate the 2nd wall, but the wad did. While I see this as good for not killing your roommate/wife/kids in the other room, with such a lack of power to penetrate two layers of drywall, is it really going to incapacitate an attacker?

Hell, I've seen my little brother break through two layers of drywall, and I wasn't afraid of him killing me at the time.


Also, another interesting box o' truth on Arfcom, http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=234486
Evidently Hydra-shoks aren't all they're cracked up to be for a JHP. I'm buying something else tomorrow night when I get home from Marathon. I'd do it tonight if the store didn't just close.

Box'O'Truth is great. But remember, it's not scientific, though he does keep improving it. #8 will leave a nasty nasty surface wound and at close close range it should do the job, but I'm just not comfortable with it.

Like I said before, Hydra-Shoks are an old design. They work though. An ARFCOM member had to shoot a man with .45 ACP Hydra-shoks. They worked as advertised. Remember, it's about shot placement. Nothing else matters if you can't hit the target.

 

[A4sForever]

MAGAZINE! MAGAZINE! MAGAZINE! (edited to say... "Magazine, sir")...
Sorry. Now that I'm done spazzing out...

Wow! Excellent!! I was going to put something about magazines and clips on here - this is one of those misuses of terms that drives me nuts -- but Fly spared me all the hate and discontent that would have rolled back onto me for being hyper-critical about what some may think is a "so what" issue ?? ... So, Gracias, Fly. Anywayyyyyyy .... just to expand on what Fly said ..... many, many people, including otherwise knowledgeable gun writers, use the term "clip" incorrectly.

These two terms are used interchangeably these days, however, they are not really interchangeable concepts. While some may argue that cutting this distinction is splitting hairs, I would argue that it is a matter of precision and proper understanding-- attitudes that one should always have when approaching firearms.

A really simple answer: The magazine is that which holds the cartridges so that they can be fed into the firearm and fired. A clip is a device designed to hold cartridges so that they can be fed easily into the magazine for use.

There are essentially only two types of magazines, the fixed (or integral) and the detachable.

Fixed (or integral) magazines are just exactly that. They are a permanent part of the firearm designed to hold the cartridges at ready to be fed either by ''working'' a bolt or by the rechambering action of a semi- or fully automatic firearm. The detachable magazine is quite well-known (and getting far more public attention than it deserves) via the ''assault weapons'' argument. This is the removable or drop-free magazine that is filled independently of the firearm itself.

A clip or ''stripper clip'' holds cartidges that are to be fed (stripped) into the magazine-- sort of like speedloaders for semi-automatics. The clip is never left in the magazine. It is either removed or used and then kept out of thefirearm itself.

''Chargers'' or ''charger clips'' are designed to be placed complete with cartridges into the firearm, with the clip becoming an essential part of the magazine/loading mechanism. When the last cartridge is fired, the empty clip portion falls or is removed from the magazine. This is the typical M1 configuration.

There are also ''half-moon clips'' for certain revolvers, however, this is the point at which (I believe) we begin to muddy the line between ''clips'' and the revolver ''speedloader''.

Now that you know the difference ,promise me you'll never attempt to fire a firearm using a "loaded clip".

..a MAGAZINE

...a (stripper) "CLIP"

 

[Lawman]

I love my USP .45f, but even with a good inside the waistband holster, she's not an easy one to conceal. Shoulder holster hides it well, but living in Florida, it's rare that I wear a jacket. I'm thinking about picking up a P2000 or P2000SK in .40S&W for my carry purposes, and leave my full-size for home and the range.

Shoot a P2000 before you buy one, believe me Im all about H&K but that LEM trigger pisses me off like no other. Its damn near impossible to be consistant (No desernable sweet spot) and just isnt worth the time and money. Ive got a USP .40F and its by no means a conceal weapon (especially on my skinny A##). I do however use it as a duty weapon and it gets some looks since it aint your buddys Glock when it comes out of the holster.

If you really want a thin gun for carry in typical Shorts and T-shirt Florida wear your really better off with a single stack auto or a J-frame. Me, money was no object, so I carry a P7M8 you can find referbs for around 1100 and up but they are worth it. If your on more of a budget though a good Airlight J-frame or a Kahr will do you fine and be very conceal friendly.

 

[metro]

I find the easiest thing to conceal is a 1911. But I am 6'5", 210...that might have something to do with it. The length of a barrel is never a problem for me, just the profile of the pistol.

 

[Goober]

OK, Ok! Fine - MAGAZINE! [shaking head] Semantics... If there are rounds headed downrange, it doesn't matter if they're from a potato gun. (Or po-tah-to gun) [/shaking head] No one in our ready room ever made the point of correcting the SDO when mistakenly asking for their two clips vice magazines when manning up (again). We were too damned tired, and it just didn't matter.

The buckshot has never really been a valid option before now. After so many years of living in apartments/townhouses w/ paper thin drywall it was either that or risk ventilating my neighbors as well. Last thing I need is a lawsuit; because although fortunately no one made off w/ the VCR, little Timmy next door caught a pellet or a missed slug in the head (well, it did hit something...). Even if shot didn't kill the guy, hell at that point I can buttstroke him after a put-down round. The 590 does has some heft to it, and w/ 10 shells, well...I can just keep working on him until I perfect my technique to my satisfaction. Any way you look at it, technique is a second-place finisher to final results. Period. End of topic.

Not the least bit worried regarding the BT rounds. As stated before, they were just a good, quality HP that was on the market when I picked up my pistol back in '93. Again, this was before the uber-hype about them from the media and uninformed would-be-do-gooders who were adamant that they were horrible cop-killing bullets. I agree that there are many great HPs on the shelf today (Silvertips, Hydra-Shok, Ranger-T, etc.). Considering I only ever shoot ball ammo at the range, I've never needed or seen the need to waste HP ammo on paper (kinda pointless - takedown power on a paper silhouette?); so the BTs are still w/ me. No plans on considering them collector items (collector ammo??? collector Scotch, maybe). They're solely for having someone come clean the carpet should some mastermind be dumb enough to break in one night. "ServPro - like it never happened."

Decaf, guys... It'll all be ok - I promise...

 

[Fly Navy]

OK, Ok! Fine - MAGAZINE! [shaking head] Semantics... If there are rounds headed downrange, it doesn't matter if they're from a potato gun. (Or po-tah-to gun) [/shaking head] No one in our ready room ever made the point of correcting the SDO when mistakenly asking for their two clips vice magazines when manning up (again). We were too damned tired, and it just didn't matter.

That's cause most people I've run into in the Navy (and surprisingly a lot of Marines... that troubles me) only have movie knowledge of firearms :icon_smil

Not the least bit worried regarding the BT rounds. As stated before, they were just a good, quality HP that was on the market when I picked up my pistol back in '93. Again, this was before the uber-hype about them from the media and uninformed would-be-do-gooders who were adamant that they were horrible cop-killing bullets. I agree that there are many great HPs on the shelf today (Silvertips, Hydra-Shok, Ranger-T, etc.). Considering I only ever shoot ball ammo at the range, I've never needed or seen the need to waste HP ammo on paper (kinda pointless - takedown power on a paper silhouette?); so the BTs are still w/ me. No plans on considering them collector items (collector ammo??? collector Scotch, maybe). They're solely for having someone come clean the carpet should some mastermind be dumb enough to break in one night. "ServPro - like it never happened."

Oh I wouldn't be worried about them, I just suggested keeping them for the value Yes, collector ammo does exist. A LOT of it. Mostly rare stuff not made anymore. Funny thing about the BT, is that it really got its bad press from doctos. They kept cutting themselves on the "talons" of the bullet when pulling them out of people. Well, the press latched onto this IMMEDIATELY and they became deadly spinning saws of cop killing death. I hate those people.

Oh, I do "waste HP" on paper targets from time to time. Always always always practice with your carry/defense ammo if you can. Obviously, this is cost prohibited for most (including me!) so I can only do it once every couple months. Mostly not an issue for most firearms, but if it's say an 1911... I'd want to be damn sure the stuff works! Of course, with your BT, you practice with them, they're gone! Oops!

 

[Dunedan]

My baby...

If I wind up with orders to California, how am I going to get my guns in there?


Edit: How do you get a picture to stick in here without doing the thumbnail thing?

 

[skidkid]

Well I went out and bought the Springfield XD-9mm 4" today with the tritium sights. 10 days and its mine. Buying in cali isnt too bad, 10 vice 15 round mags though

 

[E5B]

I've shot several hogs, javalina, rabbits and coyotes with 12 gauge 7 1/2 shot from distances from 5-20 yards and it put em down every time, some with nasty holes. (7 1/2 and 8 are the 'standard' dove/quail loads and density wise aren't too different)
The sheet-rock is a good example for safety reasons (projectile hitting someone it's not intended for) but for killin (some of you like to use the crazy term "knock-down" power) you should put up a carcus or ham from a hog and shoot it with 7 1/2 or 8 shot. You'd be surprised at the damage.

I'm confident that if a perp came in lookin for 'goods' and I shot him with 7 1/2 that he'd go down, especially with my Rem 1100 autoloader.....lol

 

[Fly Navy]

I've shot several hogs, javalina, rabbits and coyotes with 12 gauge 7 1/2 shot from distances from 5-20 yards and it put em down every time, some with nasty holes. (7 1/2 and 8 are the 'standard' dove/quail loads and density wise aren't too different)
The sheet-rock is a good example for safety reasons (projectile hitting someone it's not intended for) but for killin (some of you like to use the crazy term "knock-down" power) you should put up a carcus or ham from a hog and shoot it with 7 1/2 or 8 shot. You'd be surprised at the damage.

I'm confident that if a perp came in lookin for 'goods' and I shot him with 7 1/2 that he'd go down, especially with my Rem 1100 autoloader.....lol

I ain't messing around with a perp high on crack. 00 buck for me thank you

 

[E5B]

Oh I agree %100, I was just informing that 7 1/2, 8 shot DOES do damage.

Heck, I have OOO buck that I use......pretty sure that would knock someone down.

 

[Fly Navy]

Oh I agree %100, I was just informing that 7 1/2, 8 shot DOES do damage.

Heck, I have OOO buck that I use......pretty sure that would knock someone down.

Oh I'm not disputing that, especially with you.

 

[Lawman]

I ain't messing around with a perp high on crack. 00 buck for me thank you

000 Buck in the Benelli, 6 rounds of that and I may as well have hit you with a burst from a 240.