Best and worst experiences with flight instructors

[JD81]

Seems to me after being an IP in primar, 120 and now in Kingsville, I would agree that the studs are pretty well off.

It was big boy rules when I was there, and the ridcule/harrasment package was very minor to almost non existent. The RAG was gave me deja vu of API with the way things ran and how some folks were to the cat 1's. Most of the IP/IWSO crowd were good dudes, but the bad ones seemed to be in all the positions to over rule the good dudes, at least us cones thought so, and some stuff I was witness to was along the lines of API flight management type of shit.

 

[scoolbubba]

I think the FRS's tend to be that way. There are guys who go there to fly their ass off and teach, and they're the guys you want to learn from. Then there are the guys who go there because the FRS is a good career move; whether they can fly and teach, or just not be a gigantic doucher is up for debate. They end up flying less, which leaves more time for them to be in the high vis ground jobs, which puts them in a position to exploit their maximum douchebag potential.

 

[MasterBates]

Personally, I think it'd be good for all of Navy Air to go walk a mile in the other bastard's moccasins as a normal part of a career. Go fly something else for a couple of years instead of being a shooter. That's supposed to be the whole point of a disassoc, right? Expand your professional horizons? Do 6 months at the FRS doing an abbreviated CAT+ syllabus, then 18 months in a fleet squadron. See how they do it, learn more about a different side of the house.

It would be "good" and the timing could work, at least for Helo/P3 dudes doing it. I did it because I wanted to fly something Tailhook, having been a helo dude in COMCIVLANT before the Navy.

My whole retread training/RAG and 2 of 3 years in a fleet tour would still have me "on time" for a DH tour either in my old or new community. Minus that whole being a LCDR thing.

If they valued being well rounded over hitting the same exact TRACOM-RAG-FLEET-WTU/RAG-WTI/STAFF-DH scheme that most the previous bigwigs did, they could make it work. NOT why I did it, but I feel I could bring things of value back from VAW to HSL or things from HSL to VAW.. IF THEY LET ME.

(Everytime I suggest a way we did it in HSL, or I saw a VF or VP buddy do something, I get shut down with a big shot of "NOT INVENTED HERE")

 

[MasterBates]

And FWIW, I feel I've learned tons more, and became more "Well Rounded" by doing a SuperJO tour in a new community than I would have being a Shooter/V-X Divo on a CVN.

Learned a lot about how an airwing operates, a lot more on how things CAN be done, and about flying.

Being in an "insular" community, be it VP or HSL/SM/SC, while you may be able to "learn" about other communities, you are not working daily with them like you are in an air wing. Hell, I learned more about HS as a VAW guy than I did as an HSL guy.

 

[Gatordev]

And FWIW, I feel I've learned tons more, and became more "Well Rounded" by doing a SuperJO tour in a new community than I would have being a Shooter/V-X Divo on a CVN.

Learned a lot about how an airwing operates, a lot more on how things CAN be done, and about flying.

Being in an "insular" community, be it VP or HSL/SM/SC, while you may be able to "learn" about other communities, you are not working daily with them like you are in an air wing. Hell, I learned more about HS as a VAW guy than I did as an HSL guy.

There's plenty of other ways to learn about HS and give you extra exposure like you're talking about. Understand when I say the following, I'm saying it as someone who wants to continue flying and not someone who wants to drink the Kool Aid, but at least understanding why "they" WANT you to drink the Kool Aid can be important too...

The disassociated isn't about learning about the bigger Navy, at least not the majority of it. It's about a) filling a billet they need filled (flying guy in a non-flying/flying-related job) and b) learning how to lead and manage something bigger than a squadron-sized division. That leadership (hopefully) feeds into making someone better able to lead large groups of people say, as a CO.

Personally, I didn't want to do that job, but I understand "their" desire for me to do it, should I have stayed on "the path."

 

[MasterBates]

If the dissasoch was so important... Why don't VFA guys, who seem to be the bulk of 1310/20 Flags, do it?

I've heard the "jet guys are in school SO much longer" but then again, E-2 guys do them, and have a longer Primary Selection to Fleet Seat time on average.

 

[phrogdriver]

All arguments to invigorate a flying WO program.

 

[squorch2]

Flying WOs in their current Navy inception are... interesting. In the ancient chinese curse way. Since there's so little guidance and experience, no one knows what to do with them.

 

[squorch2]

TACAIR has their own pipeline to Flag. Everyone else competes in a different arena.

 

[phrogdriver]

If only there was another service that had done it before and could give us some direction on that....

 

[KBayDog]

If only there was another service that had done it before and could give us some direction on that....

"I like the way you think."

 

[Gatordev]

If the dissasoch was so important... Why don't VFA guys, who seem to be the bulk of 1310/20 Flags, do it?

Did you read reason a)? I'm not saying you have to like the reason, but reason a) is going to be the bulk of why it "must be done."

 

[BACONATOR]

Just curious: how many steps/how long are the jet checklists? I can't conceivable see memorizing EVERY step of EVERY checklist for the 60S. On a normal spin/set or start up for a flight, it takes on average 20 minutes at least to get completely started up and ready to pull chocks... if all systems are 4.0. Sometimes it can take upwards of 30..... hence the reason we spin/set for SAR/MEDEVAC alert.Either way, I don't think it's necessary, nor do I WANT to memorize 20 minutes of checklists.

Could I flip switches and get the thing started on my own? Sure. But there are so many little things I can miss which individually may not be a big deal or I'd catch after the fact... but add enough of them up, and I'm still panting from running out to the bird, thinking about 25 different things to get set up for and putting on my goggles for a 2am URGENT POI and there's the potential to put an aircraft in the sand/torch an engine/swap paint with dash 2/end up in the newspaper/whatever. For US (I won't presume to know anything about anyone else's community), it's much more effective to pull out our checklist and run through it (takes all of 2 seconds to flip to the alert launch checklist in the PCL) than to memorize it... and is virtually the same amount of time.

There are also things in our normal (not alert) checklist which have to be done in order, or at least have to be done a certain way, since one check may prevent you temporarily from doing another check (Chip IBIT interrupting master caution and Backup HYD pump for lockpin status comes to mind), so you can't just tackle "the closest alligator" with impunity... you have to do it in order, or at least have the forethought to know the implications of a certain check, what that limits you from doing and for how long, and be able to skip back and forth without missing anything.

Perhaps the difference in culture is that we also don't make routine "alert" launches or are pressed for gas like jets, as someone alluded to (wasting time in the chocks = fuel = training, or rushing to get to the CAT). If we are required to be in alert status, we spin and set the aircraft first, so that we can employ the alert launch checklist which seems analogous to the normal jet "flow" and check to get out of the chocks ASAP.

thoughts?

 

[pilot_man]

Everyone keeps alluding to how missing something on the checklist is going to put a jet into the drink. What do you all really think is going to cause a mishap? If I don't turn my FLIR on, the jet is still going to fly. If I don't adjust the seat, I may be uncomfortable, but the plane doesn't magically fall out of the sky. The big things like not locking the wings, or arming the seat, or putting the flaps and trip in the correct spots, are all covered on the takeoff checklist, and this is done every flight. I find it really hard to believe that after 1700 some hours, a guy can't look at a switch and know where it should be. I don't need a checklist to tell me to adjust the A/C or turn the oxygen on. I know where every switch goes for every flight, and just make sure they're correct.

 

[MasterBates]

There has been more than once the checklist save me buffonery on startup, if only because 3 of the squadrons I have been in have had vastly different versions of the same model.

Really, REALLY old Block 0 60Bs vice Block I Core Bs had different switches in the cockpit (have forgotten exactly what, but there are some differences).

E-2C+, E-2C+NU, E-2C+ MCU/ACIS and HE2K are all different enough to have different steps in start checklists. Since my current squadron has all NUs, it's a little easier, and everything is -427 engines and NP2K now.