Aviation instructor career path

[Fallonflyr]

** I'm assuming in this hypothetical that the "not future Skipper material" guy from the first part of the question doesn't apply here - just so we're clear.

Look at it from another perspective, if you have two guys that are more or less equal, but you can only give one of them the #EP ticket, then one of them essentially opts out, then that's screwing the guy that could have had the #1EP. It's all about managing a finite amount of opportunity for command. That's what that #1EP ticket is for. Giving it to someone who doesn't want command is wasting it.

My philosophy has always been maximum transparency when it comes to FITREPs. All of my DHs and JOs knew exactly where they stood. If, in this hypothetical, someone had feigned interest in command, only to switch things up after the HW FITREP, then I would probably consider that a violation of the trust I've worked hard to establish. Of course, there's always room for people to change their minds, and that's completely fine, but being deceptive or underhanded about it suggests that person is not an honest broker. In that case, why would I support/endorse that individual for a special program when they haven't been honest with me?

I guess it says more about a fucked up reporting system. Let’s say you have one squadron where every DH would make an outstanding CO and another squadron where every DH is a turd, how do you get the best people in that system? A discussion for another thread for sure.

 

[LAMPS Ninja]

You’d torpedo your #1 EP’s chances of selection just because they intend to apply to the PFI board? Even if they hadn’t yet gotten the HW, you don’t know if they would even get selected. Would this #1 EP DH no longer be your top performer? How does that change their performance history to that point?

Also, the way I read the message, the CO’s endorsement is only required to waive any of the requirements. If the requirements are all met, it looks to me like they could apply on their own, and you might not know until the select list is out.

 

[Jim123]

I get it, I mean I get the conundrum. Don't forget, the fitrep is supposed to be more of a prediction of future performance , not a report card of past performance. If you look at it like you have a DH who, out of all the DHs, would make the best skipper then that is something your community deserves, right? And if that person is most deserving, out of all the DHs (this is saying something slightly different) then the fitrep system doesn't provide a way to basically tell the board that "Hey board, guess what? I lucked out in my squadron and got TWO number one performers." So if the skipper gives that person a #2, then that person and your community both get shortchanged- think of it that way.

Soft breakouts notwithstanding and block 41 language like "read this carefully- reporting system constraints kept me from rating this person as number one, my strongest possible recommendation for number one except the system made me give him an MP, ooh rah press 100% now," let's not be naïve, your real number one is tucked away a couple blocks lower on the page. As it is, there are already a lot of commands with a number one and a number one-and-a-half performer in their summary groups, which is a lot of statistical anomalies. Coincidentally, 80% of everyone you meet is an above average driver...

None of this makes it "right" or fair if a person was truly a #1 performer but just isn't interested in the A-track. For the sake of fairness and people applying to this program, hopefully the process considers "number one-and-a-half" EP fitreps on equal footing to #1 EPs... but I doubt it. By golly, that would be logical.

 

[Brett327]

@Brett327 , I don't disagree with your post on FITREP philosophy, and I'd wager any DH worth their salt understands that's how most COs are going to look at things.

That being said, not signing a #1 guy's endorsement for PFI, simply because he surprised you by not being interested in command could easily come off as being spiteful. Were this a real situation, the skipper would have known said DH for a while, worked closely with him, and I'd wager many more things would factor into this.

True. Tough to factor all the intangibles into a hypothetical. That said, if someone lies to me, or is otherwise dishonest about their intentions, I would feel completely justified in withholding a recommendation.

You’d torpedo your #1 EP’s chances of selection just because they intend to apply to the PFI board?

I never said that. Re-read the exchange above.

 

[Python]

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’m drunk. But I thought the rentention issues were most severe in the fleet at the DH level. How does this program help alleviate that?

 

[Brett327]

I think the intent is more to boost production in the training pipelines.

 

[FrankTheTank]

** I'm assuming in this hypothetical that the "not future Skipper material" guy from the first part of the question doesn't apply here - just so we're clear.

Look at it from another perspective, if you have two guys that are more or less equal, but you can only give one of them the #EP ticket, then one of them essentially opts out, then that's screwing the guy that could have had the #1EP. It's all about managing a finite amount of opportunity for command. That's what that #1EP ticket is for. Giving it to someone who doesn't want command is wasting it.

My philosophy has always been maximum transparency when it comes to FITREPs. All of my DHs and JOs knew exactly where they stood. If, in this hypothetical, someone had feigned interest in command, only to switch things up after the HW FITREP, then I would probably consider that a violation of the trust I've worked hard to establish. Of course, there's always room for people to change their minds, and that's completely fine, but being deceptive or underhanded about it suggests that person is not an honest broker. In that case, why would I support/endorse that individual for a special program when they haven't been honest with me?

And this is what is wrong with the system.. If somebody is number 1, they are number 1, regardless of career goals.. You and your kind is what’s wrong with the FITREP game! And it’s a game...

 

[xj220]

And this is what is wrong with the system.. If somebody is number 1, they are number 1, regardless of career goals.. You and your kind is what’s wrong with the FITREP game! And it’s a game...

 

[FrankTheTank]

View attachment 19964

I’m retired.. I don’t give a shit.. You got the meme wrong.. Been there, done that.. Dont agree with the fitrep philosphy on number 1 career versus number 1 actual...

 

[UInavy]

I’m retired.. I don’t give a shit.. You got the meme wrong.. Been there, done that.. Dont agree with the fitrep philosphy on number 1 career versus number 1 actual...

Just curious- did your operational DH tour/ranking not jive with what @Brett327 is saying? I took his line as frustration with someone who sprung new intentions at the last minute, not ‘ranking the company man highest’

 

[Brett327]

And this is what is wrong with the system.. If somebody is number 1, they are number 1, regardless of career goals.. You and your kind is what’s wrong with the FITREP game! And it’s a game...

Don’t blame me for the system. I’m simply describing how I (and most COs) attempt to fairly take care of their officers within the constraints of the system. Whether or not you agree with that is not relevant. Enough with the sanctimonious grandstanding. It’s ridiculous.

 

[nugget81]

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’m drunk. But I thought the rentention issues were most severe in the fleet at the DH level. How does this program help alleviate that?

I agree. I’m not sure this hits the mark on maintaining talent at the proper gate. I have a lot of friends leaving the Navy from the FRS, and last I checked VFA was short DHs again, so the potential pool of applicants seems rather small and is getting smaller. I’ve known a few guys that have left the Navy after their DH tour, but most are close enough to the finish line that they stay and take the less desirable jobs that aviators fill (CVN Ops, anyone?) I would actually be interested in spending the remainder of my 6-7 years as an IP, as my FRS tour was the most rewarding work I’ve done in the Navy, but I’m technically not eligible since I’ve already turned down DH. Wouldn’t big navy get a better return on investment by opening up the pool to anyone nearing MSR completion, rather than losing them completely?

 

[scoolbubba]

If, in this hypothetical, someone had feigned interest in command, only to switch things up after the HW FITREP, then I would probably consider that a violation of the trust I've worked hard to establish.

Maybe that says more about the level of trust someone has in their CO to not dick them early and often than their own trustworthiness.

If you’re open about ranking people who intend to go off the path lower than their potential value to the organization, what’s the point of their being honest with you? Why wouldn’t they keep their options open by playing it close to the vest.

If I work hard enough and do well enough as an aviator and Officer to show the potential to be a skipper, I ought to get credit for it...regardless of my long term goals.

 

[Brett327]

Maybe that says more about the level of trust someone has in their CO to not dick them early and often than their own trustworthiness.

If you’re open about ranking people who intend to go off the path lower than their potential value to the organization, what’s the point of their being honest with you? Why wouldn’t they keep their options open by playing it close to the vest.

If I work hard enough and do well enough as an aviator and Officer to show the potential to be a skipper, I ought to get credit for it...regardless of my long term goals.

If your goal is permanent IP, the #1 EP buys you nothing, because you’ll be at terminal rank. Why soak that up when someone else could use it to continue their career? Doesn’t that seem selfish to you?

 

[scoolbubba]

No.

I’ve seen enough people who shouldn’t have promoted get there because they made it well known they wanted to stay. Self licking ice cream cones.

And anyway, this is all moot. Everyone knows the best path to being a professional flight instructor is to go to the show and then become a filthy reservist. All of the fun with a fraction of the bullshit.