Got to be the only reason I can think of. No one has ever bailed out of one.
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Attrition is the mission?
- Thread starter HH-60H
- Start date
Got to be the only reason I can think of. No one has ever bailed out of one.
Not true. Okay, maybe not "bailed" out.
I wish the Ops Directed IPC and Command Directed FPC were used more often. Even before all sorts of unsats. It is the tool everyone complains we don't have, but its right there in the box.
As for RRU, I don't like it for two reasons.
1. A student goes straight to the IPC/FPC process, which is good. The student should get that kind of a scare. But, assuming the student passes the progress check, the impact on the final grade is pretty much nil.
2. Because of the way the rules work, if a student gets a RRU on an End of Block or check-ride, they will basically get an extra training flight.
??? you ask? Well, here's an example. Student goes to C4204 brief and the IP gives a RRU. The IP must grade the event Unsat/Incomplete. Assuming the student passes the IPC(R)/FPC(R), he comes back to the IP and completes the C4204, since it was incomplete. But wait, since the incomplete portion of the event was unsat, the IP must grade the event unsat when they fly it and complete it. Since it is the end of block, student flies another C4204.
Give the RRU more teeth with respect to final grade and remove the EOB/Check flight anomoly, and the RRU would be a much better tool.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but if I was under the impression that if you get a RRU that the event is over right then, no flight.
It is, but since you're actually initiating a gradesheet (despite there being no NAVFLIR), the event has to, by definition, be complete or incomplete. Since neither 75% of the hours nor 75% of the graded items have been completed, it's UNSAT/INCOMPLETE. Personally I think, as an on-wing, you probably haven't done your job if you've let your stud get to 4204 and unsat for something like the brief, but that doesn't change the facts as Heloanjin describes them.
Yeah, that part I understand. The way I read (or misread) Heloanjin's post is the stud would get two flights in the plane for the C4204, which didn't make sense to me.
He would, just one wouldn't get him past Go, nor does he collect the $200.
Yeah, it isn't obvious and it took a few mistakes early on before the squadrons/TWs got it consistently right, but the way the course map would look is something like this:
C4204 unsat/incomplete for RRU
C4204 unsat/complete after IPC(R)/FPC(R)
If an incomplete event is unsat, then the event is unsat when completed.
Then:
C4287 (at least that's what the code was a year ago) Hopefully, sat/complete
This was a bit of a fictional scenario. Hopefully, an IP won't let their stud RRU this late. However, there are many EOB flights where this could easily happen...and did. I always argued there should have been a mechanism in MPTS that would preclude the additional training flight.
BTW, and not to get off the subject, but unless there has been a change, you don't need to complete 75% of the graded items. You just need to train for 75% of the hours per X. Not that any good IP would spend that much training time in the air doing so little.
RetreadRand said:
I've seen it on two students the same week on a BI-3 (two different IPs). Briefing item is "any EP", both of them were given ample chance to recite multiple memorize EPs, both couldn't do it. They were given multiple chances. I probably wouldn't have shot them, but don't fault the IP who did it.
RetreadRand said:
Oh, I knew what you meant. I am just saying it is VERY subjective in most cases. It is a lot easier with an onwing, because your ownership of that individual. I prefer to give a "shot across the bow" for a single bad brief. Agreed, there is no excuse for the student, but everyone has bad days.
Oh, I know, I was just saying. But your overall point is taken.
Well, poop, you're absolutely right. I just looked it up (albeit in the previous version of the syllabus...couldn't find my new one here at home). Thanks for the correction. I'll have to dig around and find out where I'm getting that.
I spoke with one of the civilians at TW-5 the other day. She as the statistics as to how many attrite out of the flight program. Last fiscal year, for primary, it was 9.2% for all causes. She said for advanced...all advanced...it was 3.7% for all causes. Pretty small attrition rate if you ask me.
Do people REALLY ask gay questions like that? If someone did that in one of my squadrons, we would have thrown them overboard.
We had a guy like that at VAW-120 when I was an IP. I asked him once why he asked such useless questions. His answer "You should know everything, every...thing about this aircraft, it may save your life one day."
A week later, he taxied out of a parking spot while the Oceana T-line guy was trying to disconnect the external power cord from the side of his plane.
It is possible to be smart and stupid.
No, you may have isolated cases of some jackassery, but there have been huge strides in our community to focus on core system knowledge (and stay out of the weeds). The post you responded to, it was basically a bullshit post from someone who doesn't know jack shit about the MPRA community, and spreading a useless stereotype.
We DO have issues with reduced flight hours for our pilots coming out of their first tour, that is affecting the overall EXPERIENCE level of our flight stations. As I think in ANY community, but especially one with an aging airframe, emphasis on knowing your systems and procedures cannot be understressed. Having gone back VP30, and the CATIII syllabus, our community is definitely continuing to stress what is important.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
My only real impression of the P3 community is via VT-31.
HSL has a rep for systems nazi-ness, but the average P3 guy blew it away.
Just an observation I made. USAF C130 IPs in the same squadron had a much different outlook.
I personally think UNDERSTANDING how something works is more useful than rote memorization of how many microns a filter is, how many RPM the gear motor turns at.
I never had knowing 3.874 pints per second flow though a 42.69 micron filter help me understand or troubleshoot something in flight.
Knowing a bad pressure switch can cause SAS/BOOST to kick off did.
HSL has a rep for systems nazi-ness, but the average P3 guy blew it away.
Just an observation I made. USAF C130 IPs in the same squadron had a much different outlook.
I personally think UNDERSTANDING how something works is more useful than rote memorization of how many microns a filter is, how many RPM the gear motor turns at.
I never had knowing 3.874 pints per second flow though a 42.69 micron filter help me understand or troubleshoot something in flight.
Knowing a bad pressure switch can cause SAS/BOOST to kick off did.