Attrition is the mission?

[HH-60H]

I hear from StuCon at the wing it's around 12-15%......I wouldn't call that very high.

That interesting.... it's the first time I have seen that stat around here. Do you know if that it is through all phases of flight school, or just Primary? Was it higher before the Navy started IFS? I have always been curious about attrition rates.

MODS feel free to split if necessary.

 

[skidkid]

Or the Air Force grading system?

 

[HH-60H]

Or the Air Force grading system?

Oh yeah, good question.

 

[Gatordev]

Or the Air Force grading system?

I wouldn't think it's the AF grading system as much as the current revision of the system, which is much more tolerant than MPTS was when I went through. Or perhaps you mean in HTs, which as has been mentioned, was pretty jacked up at the beginning.

 

[bunk22]

That interesting.... it's the first time I have seen that stat around here. Do you know if that it is through all phases of flight school, or just Primary? Was it higher before the Navy started IFS? I have always been curious about attrition rates.

MODS feel free to split if necessary.

My understanding that was primary but I can clarify tomorrow. This new MPTS grading system IMO certainly makes it easier to do poorly and get through. My old roomate was out of flight training after 2 downs, attrited after his FAM-2. I've seen some jackets and see more than just 2-3 unsats in many. I had one unsat flight in flight school, in advanced, during FCLP's....granted a bit more serious in nature due to the nature of what I had to accomplish but I had to got to a PRB then on to the CO. My only down in flight school, I was a 50NSS or above in all phases of flight training, primary, intermediate and advanced but went through a lot of pain for my one and only lousy down.

 

[e6bflyer]

That number sounds correct for primary if you include DORs. I do think that MPTS gives students a lot of chances to succeed, perhaps more than it should. If a student consistently sucks, they generally get the axe, it just takes a little longer under MPTS.

 

[MSkinsATC]

Seems like Primary to me, my primary class lost 2 of 15.....obviously just one class, but seems about right when talking to others after leaving Primary. Havent lost anyone from my advanced class and we are getting close to the end!

 

[HH-60H]

I am also willing to bet that IFS didn't change much in the way of attrition for low NSS.
NSS is based on competition. If IFS is making people better pilots before flight school, that just means you have to earn better grades to get the same NSS. Which means you probably have the same number of LOW-NSS attrites.

I thought IFS was not to make better pilots, but to remove people with far below average aeronautical aptitude and people who realize they don't like flying.

 

[HH-60H]

6 and 1/2 dozen: you give someone 20 hours in a plane and they will be a better pilot.

That's not the same thing. You are actively looking to remove people, therefore it should (I don't know if it does) lower the number of attrites later in the program.

 

[HH-60H]

actively remove people?
I have heard of guys quitting after IFS..but not being kicked out...does that happen?

Hmm, maybe that's not the right word. But, I thought it was to screen people... people who don't like it DOR before API/Primary... people with below aptitude (i.e. don't solo within time limits) are sent elsewhere.

 

[BACONATOR]

Don't know about attrites but have heard first hand about people going to PRBs during IFS for sub-par performance.

 

[HokiePilot]

I know someone who failed out of IFS. He failed his X-country check and went to a PRB. At the PRB, the doc thought that he had a lazy eye and downed him for two weeks for testing. After two weeks, he was deemed fine and went back to fly his check. He was a little rusty had a little trouble with the landings and was failed again. He didn't get a third chance.

Supposedly that school has since lost its IFS contract for a number of reasons.

 

[xj220]

I'd like to think the attrition rates decrease the further along in training you go, especially after primary. I can see how primary might be higher than API since API is mainly course work (the last two weeks aren't that much) and primary requires a lot more from the individual.

 

[MasterBates]

Claimed(and seen) attrition rates are higher in Jets than HTs and VT(prop) due to one main thing.

That, and ACM attrites seem to be a good chunk of them.

USN ACM/WEPS attrites that CQ often get sent to VT-31 for Multi training to become E2C2 guys.

Not sure what happens to USMC guys though.

 

[NavAir42]

In my primary class of 11, we lost 2, one to a DOR and one that was a low NSS atrite. 10 to 15% sounds about right. Only lost one in advanced to a DOR, and that one was a head case.

I know of only one guy who was ever kicked out of IFS because of poor performance and that guy was an ass clown to begin with.