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Are you kidding me? Navy QB charged with rape...

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Wingnut

Kill your television
I didn't remember the Zamora story, truly chilling. The Chief is absolutely right about how the media portrays the military in any such scandal. These things happen in various universities and other institutions and the crime is often the only thing you really hear about, whereas the media always calls it a breakdown in discipline when it happens at one of the Academies or other military training institutions. It's sad that they take such an unfairly negative view, but they do, and it's why I don't pay attention to the TV news anymore. It's also sad that there are bad apples who get into the USNA, et al, but it's a fact that some are always going to get in. Could they do more to weed them out? Maybe, but I would be willing to say that part of the problem is that even the better graduates of public and even private high schools aren't what they used to be. I could be wrong.
As for the persons involved in this case, I'm not jumping to conclusions, the guy could easily be completely innocent of the charges, and I hope he's innocent and is cleared of the accusations. On a different note, and I'm opening myself up to charges of prudism here, but isn't this another good example of why it's better not to get yourself involved in an intimate relationship such as [it seems] existed here? How can you be sure that something like this isn't going to happen, even if you're careful about it? It seems commonplace and even accepted for people to be doing things like this in similar circumstances, when they would be far better off if they'd focus on their studies and the tasks in front of them. Some women like the power they have when they cry rape, and some, in my estimation, don't know how to react to a breakup. I think many people, and men are probably more guilty than women, don't realize the line they're crossing and the complications they're creating when they enter into intimate relations. It may seem innocent, it may seem like something that couldn't possibly hurt, but how many guys have ruined their reputations, careers, and sometimes more yet, in pursuit of passing pleasures? I know it's partly a product of my upbringing, but it just seems so much simpler to me to avoid such relationships. I'm not passing judgement on anyone with this, but it eliminates so many potential complications, and I plan on continuing as such. I'd rather concentrate on making the cockpit.
 

Country Boy

Proud Father
Wingnut said:
It's also sad that there are bad apples who get into the USNA, et al, but it's a fact that some are always going to get in. Could they do more to weed them out? Maybe, but I would be willing to say that part of the problem is that even the better graduates of public and even private high schools aren't what they used to be. I could be wrong.
Good point, but I don't think that all the "better graduates" of high schools aren't what they used to be, just that most of the better graduates aren't going to military academies or joining up anymore like they used to. A good college degree and a better paying job in the civilian sector (assuming they don't want to fly) is a much more enticeing draw than service anymore. So we end up getting most of what's left.
 

trt23

Registered User
Actually, the point is that no matter the population you draw from, there will always be outlyers, such as Zamora, or another example is Ted Kaczynski (accepted to Harvard at the age of 16).
 

KBayDog

Well-Known Member
trt23 said:
Speaking of the Academies representing society....... does anyone remember the Diane Zamora saga from back in the day? (mid 90's, I think). Now, that was a doozy.

The funniest thing about Inmate Zamora is that she got married on June 17th, 2003, while in prison (duh).

Her groom? (And I cannot possibly make this up...)

Fellow inmate Steven Mora.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
KBayDog said:
The funniest thing about Inmate Zamora is that she got married on June 17th, 2003, while in prison (duh).

Her groom? (And I cannot possibly make this up...)

Fellow inmate Steven Mora.
That would make a great hyphenated name.

Brett
 

Wingnut

Kill your television
Country Boy said:
...A good college degree and a better paying job in the civilian sector (assuming they don't want to fly) is a much more enticeing draw than service anymore. So we end up getting most of what's left.

It depends on the degree and geographic location. My math degree has done nothing for me as far as getting a good job. I've been turned down for jobs that I would think I'm overqualified for. Everybody's impressed with a math degree, but, around here anyway, no one is interested in paying nearly what it's worth. Again, it depends on what your degree is, but there are a lot of people coming out of college and doing something totally unrelated to what they studied (and often getting pay that would make O-1 pay look pretty good).
As for the people coming into the military, I think you see more of a cross-section then you used to. A lot of bright, hardworking kids want to serve their country in the military, probably more than in recent years (I would say since Vietnam), but these aren't nearly nough to fill the ranks. So, you also have people who are not as patriotic or dedicated, and probably not as bright, who make up the rest of the field. I'm not a product of the public schools, and I hope I don't offend anyone by saying that the typical product of the current public education system tends to be deficient in both academic ability and moral character; typically, the situation doesn't improve through college either. It makes for a rather unpleasant situation: The need for a more complete reeducation and more rigorous training (commencerate with a high attrition rate) has never been higher, but politics and military funding are such that the chances of things moving that way are virtually nil.
 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
Wingnut said:
I'm not a product of the public schools, and I hope I don't offend anyone by saying that the typical product of the current public education system tends to be deficient in both academic ability and moral character; typically, the situation doesn't improve through college either. It makes for a rather unpleasant situation: The need for a more complete reeducation and more rigorous training (commencerate with a high attrition rate) has never been higher, but politics and military funding are such that the chances of things moving that way are virtually nil.

Since when did private schools instill moral character?

And since when did universities provide grade curves to students who went to public schools?

Edit: Because you can't always spell fonetiklee.
 

flashypants

Whoa.
pilot
Wingnut said:
I'm not a product of the public schools, and I hope I don't offend anyone by saying that the typical product of the current public education system tends to be deficient in both academic ability and moral character; typically, the situation doesn't improve through college either.

It makes for a rather unpleasant situation: The need for a more complete reeducation and more rigorous training (commencerate with a high attrition rate) has never been higher, but politics and military funding are such that the chances of things moving that way are virtually nil.

I believe what you meant was: 'commensurate'

Perhaps you should spend more time brushing up on spelling skills that your private institution failed to teach you, and less time bagging on public schools. I'm sure your excuse will be "I have a math degree." But at least get the easy ones right when you're picking on public schools.

Yours,
John Q. Public School, who knows how to spell 'commensurate' (and, believe it or not, has high moral character) ;)
 

Country Boy

Proud Father
BigRed389 said:
Since when did private schools instill moral character?
I don't want to stir up this debate, but there are a few private schools out there (mainly religiously affiliated ones) that do instill or at least try to instill moral character. I won't guarantee that it will last much longer than freshman year of college. Moral character is completely up to parental influence.


BigRed389 said:
And since when did university's provide grade curves to students who went to public schools?

As far as universities curving grades, my experience at a university has proven that statement (at least in the core classes like the early physics and such), but that is mainly determined by what university and what teacher you have.
 

HH-60H

Manager
pilot
Contributor
Wingnut said:
Everybody's impressed with a math degree, but, around here anyway, no one is interested in paying nearly what it's worth.

If no one will pay that, then it's not worth that. I think that's some rule of economics, or something.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
BigRed389 said:
And since when did university's provide grade curves to students who went to public schools?
Since when was the word "university" pluralized with an "apostrophe s?"

Sorry, couldn't resist. :D

Brett
 

eddie

Working Plan B
Contributor
Wingnut said:
I'm not a product of the public schools, and I hope I don't offend anyone by saying that the typical product of the current public education system tends to be deficient in both academic ability and moral character; typically, the situation doesn't improve through college either.
Friend,

I don't think you are offending anyone necessarily, but that doesn't mean you aren't talking out of your ass...

However, because you were home-schooled therefore possibly operating without a full stack of social cards and cues, I forgive your transgression. :D ;)

Happy Posting,

Eddie
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
eddie said:
However, because you were home-schooled therefore possibly operating without a full stack of social cards and cues, I forgive your transgression. :D ;)
Eddie, you're the best! Virtual rep! :D

Brett
 

lucian_boy

Registered User
no system is perfect, only time will tell if someone is perfect or not. i work enlisted and i see alot of ****ty chiefs and first classes how slip through the cracks. just give the guy the and the justice the chance to proove the case. but it still cast a dark shadow on the USNA and the media is not helping the situation.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
valion_pride said:
no system is perfect, only time will tell if someone is perfect or not. i work enlisted and i see alot of ****ty chiefs and first classes how slip through the cracks. just give the guy the and the justice the chance to proove the case. but it still cast a dark shadow on the USNA and the media is not helping the situation.
???

Brett
 
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