If that were true, I'd be a 37-star general by now!
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Are individual awards getting watered down (ie a NAM for a Det)?
- Thread starter Alpha_Echo_606
- Start date
If that were true, I'd be a 37-star general by now!
No...I did not go to the Naval Academy.
Actually, the amount of shit we had to put up with collectively made finding out we got a MUC like 6 months after the fact pretty damn nice. Also nice because I didn't get an end-of-tour NAM like everyone else on a B-Billet because I went MECEP.
I agree. At my current comand, the reservists show up for 10-14 days, do maybe 3-4 days of work and all get NAM's. It's ridiculous really. I've been at commands in which it would take an act of God to get anything above a NAM for your end of tour as an LT.
I've gotten to point of my almost 40 year association with the military (that made me feel ancient when I calculated when I first went through what you now call MEPS) that I prefer situations where nobody even wears awards because it's such a distraction. In fact, I was struck by my pass through TOPGUN experience and subsequent briefs by instructors that they remove not only ribbons, but their watches and rings before briefing (when in khakis) to keep them from being distractors (A compromise is wearing top three only). I've also gravitated to where I like working environment where no rank is displayed either so it's all about your street cred, not your patches, or insignia or chest salad, which can be so distracting and cause the very spirals this thread is evoking.
Back in the 1990's a squadron CO was authorized to award two "CO's NAMs" every year. They generally went to the Sailor of the Year and another deserving member of the enlisted side of the house.
That got changed because the CAGs and Commodores were sick of haivng to do all the paperword for all the "Cruise NAMs" and EOT NAMs, so Big Navy gave Commander Commands unlimited NAM authority; this open the proverbial flood gates. Now you have commands who have a 'medals for all my friends' mentality for the Awards Board since they are now 'free' in the eyes of the command. You do not need to justify giving an award to anyone outside of the command so more awards are given.
I've sat on Awards board for 5 different units and NAMs are now given for performances that used to be given a LOC since there is no limit to the number of NAMs given away. Right or wrong a NAM is now a parting gift for doing an adequate job as an E-5 and above in a squadron.
I've seen it go the other way, HS-10 used to give a NCM for completing a tour there as an IP, but when I just left HS-10 it was NAMs for IPs out the door.
During my Joint Tour we had a USMC 1-star take command and he started freaking out when he saw that folks were going a DMSM for 'doing thier jobs'. He commented that an MSM is what a Battalion Commander would get for a successful command tour and joint commands hand them out like Pez. The Air Force Officers started to get scared because if they left a joint tour without a DMSM it would be the kiss of death for their careers.
But I have to say the worst award I've ever seen was a NCM given to the volenteer 3rd base coach for the All-Navy baseball team. The best part of this whole thing was that the LT was put in for the award by the Region Staff. I'm sure it was just a coincidence that his wife worked in the PAO office for that same Region staff...
These days, having someone not get an EOT award is very telling about the individuals performance at that command- and it doesn't tell anything good.
I overheard a comment to the effect of "someone must have established a Bronze Star Medal minting factory in Iraq because of the number of non-Valor BSM's being awarded."
IMO the move to make bags neither uniform nor working and requiring formalized rank and nametags was another one of the incremental moves destroying the esprit de corps of our specialty.
I've not been at it 40 years but the 24 years I've been with it has seen a gradual but sure decline in the relative effort required for awards. They have always been at the whim of the commander and some have been more free than others. It took me a bit to realize it but awards need to mean something to you as a recognition of your effort otherwise they are just bits of cloth and medal and one person's can't be compared to another.
In the precedence chart the AM medal is superior to the NCM but my NCM with V means more to me than my AM with V because of the mission behind it and what I accomplished. Both look exactly the same as eveyone else's.
Interesting thread. I think the answer is yes. Since mid-50's, some 56 years, I have been"at it",
I arrived in the Nav too late, for the Korean era GeDunk Award (National Defense), the cutoff being a few weeks before I arrived. Think the NAM arrived on the scene early 1960's, maybe 1961. My first medal was the Good Conduct at 4 years. It was peacetime, and medals did not flow freely. As I recall, I was a Senior Chief with nine years active service when I received my second medal, the GeeDunk ribbon, soon thereafter the Vietnam Cross Of Galantry (or some such) and thereafter a host of VietNam era medals, several "unit" awards and four other personal awards, one them the including now infamous NAM, Reflecting, I was Expert Marksman in both rifle and pistol, never had a ribbon, not sure nor care why.
In that first 8 years, I spent most of my time on numerous, almost constant special operations detachments. Received 4.0 performance evals across the board, too many commendation/appreciation letters to count. I loved what I was doing and the Navy loved how I was doing it. No medals nor ribbons, save that tattered and frayed GCM. I do remember some of the SpecOps missions our OIC spend a huge amount of time writing up his recommendation for medals (Legion of Merit) seemed to be the norm for the Officer Corps, swift kick in the behind for the enlisted pukes.
In the final anslysis, who really cares. Medals served Sen John Kerry well, on several occasions, but they were not a game changer.:icon_tong
Welcome to My world. Take the one piece flight suit away from us because some Infantry General somewhere has a bug up his ass about pilots looking like pilots and not soldiers. Agree that if they make the new Two Piece A2CU identical in pattern and general appearance to the ACU that they can wear it as a general work uniform. Then change their mine on that and leave us with a uniform that has some serious deficiencys as far as being "user friendly" and falls apart after very little heavy use.
You Navy Aviation guys dont know how well you have it. About the only ones that can really relate and understand some of the out right comtempt towards the Aviation Branch in the Army would be the Marines. Think about this, at least you have a chance that your top Boss could actually be an Aviator. Mark my words, there will never be a Chief of Staff of the Army that comes from the Aviation Branch (just like there will never be a Commandant of the Marine Corps who isnt from a ground MOS).
Considering that a DMSM is awarded for "serving in a joint activity, distinguish themselves by non-combat outstanding achievement or meritorious service" then the award given to folks who deploy into a combat zone and perform well is a Bronze Star without a V.
The criteria for a Bronze Star includes "heroic or meritorious achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight, while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States; while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force; or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.”
I realize that what used to constitute a Bronze Star in WWII and what constitutes one today is incredibly different, but that is due to the standard for achievement of this award being lowered compared to 60 years ago.
Everyone gets NAMs at an O-5 command because they're easier to give then FLOCs (and worth more points). NAMs can be signed by the CO the day you want to give the award. At my fleet squadron it took almost 180 days of lead time to ensure that a Sailor was given a FLOC before they left. Not to mention that in that 180 days they had to go through the Wing and their chop process as well, with COs answering questions for why a sailor deserved a FLOC.
Our wing had very strict NCM rules for non O-4s. To get one as a 1st tour LT you had to move mountains and have a CO who was willing to go argue his case and why the COMMO should break his awards policy for this one individual. I'd imagine that the same process would have to happen to get RAG IPs NCMs.
Couldn't agree more. It's easier to give a NAM, therefore, more NAMs.
When I left HS-10 in the late 90's pretty much every departing IP got a NCM. When I just left there in 2009, our Wing was pretty much the same for all O-3 and below. Pretty much all the IPs got NAMs.
We had to make a stink to get an E-6 a NCM for his retirment.
Actually, the Bronze Star wasn't that big a deal even 60 years ago. We get wrapped up around that one, but it's was devised as an Air Medal equivalent for ground troops.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/04/gns_army_germany_gold_cross_043010/
14 Army Soldiers became the first non-Germans to receive Germany's Gold Cross. In a point that I'm going to steal from CDR Salamander, if you notice the dates, it took the Germans one month to get this award to US troops. That's what I call Prussian efficiency at it's finest. Sometimes it seems that you'd be hard pressed to get a Safety Pro or an LOA out to sailors in your own command in 1mo, and the Germans manage to get it done for foreign nationals in that short of time.
14 Army Soldiers became the first non-Germans to receive Germany's Gold Cross. In a point that I'm going to steal from CDR Salamander, if you notice the dates, it took the Germans one month to get this award to US troops. That's what I call Prussian efficiency at it's finest. Sometimes it seems that you'd be hard pressed to get a Safety Pro or an LOA out to sailors in your own command in 1mo, and the Germans manage to get it done for foreign nationals in that short of time.