Applications Open for the CNO's Rapid Innovation Cell

[BackOrdered]

I like the initiative, but Google Glass is a DOA technology to begin with, and if it wasn't you're gonna have a difficult time convincing top brass that they should allow something like that on ships on a mass scale when the Navy is deathly afraid of classified material leaks

It depends on what you are doing with them. If all you are doing is mirroring VMS on a routine transit into a visual Augmented Reality, I don't see the issue and that can be a huge hand to bridge team multitasking. I imagine it wouldn't fly on a sub. Loss prevention and cost wise, it would obviously be a proprietary "DOD only" version too apparent and hard wired to steal and you do you realize how much NVG cost aboard ship? How much more can these be?

 

[Spekkio]

I'm sure they can be useful in some capacity, but at an estimated $500 a pop for the non-proprietary version and associated risk of taking pictures of all sorts of things on the ship, I can't see them catching on for tactical use. They'd have to bring something unique to the table that doesn't already exist, which I don't think they do in an environment where you have limited internet connectivity. Then there's the fact that I've read many tech articles that believe the tech is going to be a bust. If that happens they will cost an arm and a leg to replace. Besides, we already have a VMS monitor on the bridge or in control that is right in front of the OOD's face...surface ships don't do that?

 

[BackOrdered]

I'm sure they can be useful in some capacity, but at an estimated $500 a pop for the non-proprietary version and associated risk of taking pictures of all sorts of things on the ship, I can't see them catching on. They'd have to bring something unique to the table that doesn't already exist, and then there's the fact that I've read many tech articles that believe the tech is going to be a bust. If that happens they will cost an arm and a leg to replace. Besides, we already have a VMS monitor on the bridge that is right in front of the OOD's face...surface ships don't do that?

Dude, NVGs on surface ships are crazy expensive, in the several thousands. And yes, they have been getting lost/stolen/broken for years. If 500 dollars is money, than we need to cut ALOT of other line items.

 

[Spekkio]

Does google glass give you night vision? If not, I fail to see what one has to do with the other. My point is that the cost/benefit isn't there for google glass unless it brings something unique to the table, while someone thinks it is for NVG. The show-stopper is going to be trusting Sailors to look at tactical displays classified secret and above with a camera, when we're moving in the opposite direction of that by banning cell phones with cameras and even Playstations/Xboxes.

 

[BackOrdered]

Does google glass give you night vision? If not, I fail to see what one has to do with the other. My point is that the cost/benefit isn't there for google glass, while someone thinks it is for NVG.

I'm not saying they are for NVGs, but requisition wise, they would be treated very similarly (save the possible software license). The idea that they are too expensive upfront doesn't hold. And how do we know up front that the cost/benefit isn't there if no one has formally took time to research *nudging the TC*?

 

[Brett327]

Does google glass give you night vision? If not, I fail to see what one has to do with the other. My point is that the cost/benefit isn't there for google glass unless it brings something unique to the table, while someone thinks it is for NVG. The show-stopper is going to be trusting Sailors to look at tactical displays classified secret and above with a camera, when we're moving in the opposite direction of that by banning cell phones with cameras and even Playstations/Xboxes.

We currently employ lots of secure gadgets that incorporate cameras and other recording devices within a classified environment. Those are technical things to be managed like anything else - they're not going to be a show-stopper.

 

[BigRed389]

Does google glass give you night vision? If not, I fail to see what one has to do with the other. My point is that the cost/benefit isn't there for google glass unless it brings something unique to the table, while someone thinks it is for NVG. The show-stopper is going to be trusting Sailors to look at tactical displays classified secret and above with a camera, when we're moving in the opposite direction of that by banning cell phones with cameras and even Playstations/Xboxes.

I'm pretty sure the plan isn't to use them in CIC. I don't think it'd be much value added in an environment where you have, if anything, too damn many displays.

Up on the bridge, there isn't really all that much in terms of classified displays, and having data integrated to what you see (Shoe-HUD) would be pretty awesome. We had an E-4's whose sole purpose in life during an UNREP was to hold up a white board and write down prop pitch/engine RPM so the conn standing out on the bridgewing would have SA on what the last engine order was.
And for close in surface engagements, topside talks in clock positions, CIC talks in true bearings. Would be nice to be able to think in both in real time as the ship maneuvers. Or lookout visual feed (aircraft) gets fed to CIC to cue better optics to get PID. Not hard to see how you could get valuable ROI on this.

And there are some AORs where you are required to have cameras/mikes running every time you interact with anybody. I was able to justify putting a GoPro/Contour camera on every gunner's helmet once.

 

[ben4prez]

One of the benefits we see to Google Glass - or the concept anyway - is to allow open sourcing of apps. What if a sailor aloft had an app in Glass that would show him all the maintenance steps rather than have someone below reading them to him, so he could also use two hands? What if orders could be passed via Glass? We want to let sailors create their own solutions -- and provide them with the tech infrastructure to make it happen. I know we certainly dont have all the answers, but in providing a platform to build on, we could leverage the inherent talent of our creative cadre of sailors.

Are there problems? Sure -- and we aim to uncover them. Will Glass go bust? who knows - but its a fascinating new technology that if it succeeds, could reshape our world, and we want in on the ground floor.

But I'm always amazed at how many people say "it can't be done" then give a list of reaons given current conditions. Doing is better than perfect. The whole point of the CRIC to see if it CAN be done in ways weve never imagined. Failure is acceptible -- and indeed inevitable when trying out new technology/procedures.

" All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible."

 

[LET73]

I can see more use for that sort of technology in a more tactical environment--e.g., guys in a combat environment, spread out, share with each other what they're seeing; that integrates into whatever map technology they've already got, etc. Particularly useful if we're talking NVGs. Not sure I see much of a use for it on the ship--at least, not enough to justify spending the money on it until it's proven elsewhere.

 

[BackOrdered]

I can see more use for that sort of technology in a more tactical environment--e.g., guys in a combat environment, spread out, share with each other what they're seeing; that integrates into whatever map technology they've already got, etc. Particularly useful if we're talking NVGs. Not sure I see much of a use for it on the ship--at least, not enough to justify spending the money on it until it's proven elsewhere.

You haven't stood too many surface watches have you? The Surface Navy is the ideal place to test this safely in real time. Should it fail, revert to manual efforts as trained. The aloft assistance tool idea ben4prez pitched alone is genius. Off the top of my head, I can see a million uses for a bridge team (Rules of the Road/Standing Orders on the fly by just asking, CPA, VMS mirroring etc etc etc). And if I had those things in the helo tower, I could do flight quarters from the tower single handedly, even at night. All for less than the cost of NVGs.

 

[BigRed389]

I can see more use for that sort of technology in a more tactical environment--e.g., guys in a combat environment, spread out, share with each other what they're seeing; that integrates into whatever map technology they've already got, etc. Particularly useful if we're talking NVGs. Not sure I see much of a use for it on the ship--at least, not enough to justify spending the money on it until it's proven elsewhere.

I'm so glad ships aren't operating in a tactical environment and have no need to share what they see or integrate that into any sort of combat system. Dodged a real bullet there.

 

[LET73]

You haven't stood too many surface watches have you? The Surface Navy is the ideal place to test this safely in real time. Should it fail, revert to manual efforts as trained. The aloft assistance tool idea ben4prez pitched alone is genius. Off the top of my head, I can see a million uses for a bridge team (Rule of the Road/Standing Orders on the fly by just asking, CPA, VMS mirroring etc etc etc). And if I had those things in the helo tower, I could do flight quarters from the tower single handedly, even at night. All for less than the cost of NVGs.

All useful, but why not just use an iPad (or equivalent) for those? Existing, proven technology, and surely someone on the bridge team has two hands free to use it. A tablet that has all the manuals and spot check procedures? Ability to call up the Standing Orders without pawing through a binder? Sounds good to me. The benefit of a tablet is that a few people can look at the same app, meaning they only need one device between them when they're all in the same place. But you're right, I didn't stand any surface watches; we intel weenies generally don't get to do that--at least, no one on my ship did--so if there's some u/w watch application that would be improved by instant, one-handed ability to take photos of what the watchstander is seeing, or look up or share information, but that would be hampered by an iPad, I'm all ears.

I'm so glad ships aren't operating in a tactical environment and have no need to share what they see or integrate that into any sort of combat system. Dodged a real bullet there.

I know, right? Pretty lucky. But seriously, is Google Glass the best tool?

 

[BigRed389]

All useful, but why not just use an iPad (or equivalent) for those? Existing, proven technology, and surely someone on the bridge team has two hands free to use it. A tablet that has all the manuals and spot check procedures? Ability to call up the Standing Orders without pawing through a binder? Sounds good to me. The benefit of a tablet is that a few people can look at the same app, meaning they only need one device between them when they're all in the same place. But you're right, I didn't stand any surface watches; we intel weenies generally don't get to do that--at least, no one on my ship did--so if there's some u/w watch application that would be improved by instant, one-handed ability to take photos of what the watchstander is seeing, or look up or share information, but that would be hampered by an iPad, I'm all ears.

Seriously? Then take like 30 seconds to read my post (#37). And those are just the ones I could pull out of my ass. There's probably more. I just thought of two more tactical applications while writing this post.

 

[Spekkio]

Up on the bridge, there isn't really all that much in terms of classified displays, and having data integrated to what you see (Shoe-HUD) would be pretty awesome. We had an E-4's whose sole purpose in life during an UNREP was to hold up a white board and write down prop pitch/engine RPM so the conn standing out on the bridgewing would have SA on what the last engine order was.

Why can't you just modify existing display software to accomodate this, instead of investing in Google Glass? How do you get Google Glass and SRPM/pitch to 'talk' when the ship is not built to wirelessly transmit that data? Don't say 'voice recognition' -- that tech has been around for over 20 years and I've yet to have it work reliably for me.

And for close in surface engagements, topside talks in clock positions, CIC talks in true bearings.

Can't possibly fix this by modifying training? If surface ships use similar CCS as us, couldn't they just speak in relative bearings just the same, especially since the CCS can easily display both values instead of making the OOD mentally calculate the difference?

What if a sailor aloft had an app in Glass that would show him all the maintenance steps rather than have someone below reading them to him, so he could also use two hands?

I can't speak for Navy wide, but in our community if a Sailor is having a procedure read to him, it's so that the reader (usually the more senior) can circle-x the steps and provide backup if he's about to jack it up. So an iPAD with check-boxes would be more appropriate, but then we go back to "just make a copy and put it on a clipboard and spend the $400 elsewhere."

And innovating processes without at least DH level approval is a big nono. The latter can be fixed with a culture shift, but now you have to convince the heavies to allow any Sailor to do alts to your expensive, proprietary goggles with the risk of damaging them.

Off the top of my head, I can see a million uses for a bridge team (Rules of the Road/Standing Orders on the fly by just asking, CPA, VMS mirroring etc etc etc).

If you don't know the RoR and COSO, you shouldn't be standing watch.You don't pull out the rules of the road in the middle of the highway while driving your car, do you? VMS mirroring already exists, and VMS already displays CPA through the target data pair function (a relatively useless function that clutters the screen if PADs are on and set to a useful value, which they should be). Additionally, an iPAD is better for manuals as mentioned before -- presumably you'd be looking through a PDF of these documents and would need to get to the appropriate page quickly.

But you're right, I didn't stand any surface watches; we intel weenies generally don't get to do that--at least, no one on my ship did--so if there's some u/w watch application that would be improved by instant, one-handed ability to take photos of what the watchstander is seeing, or look up or share information, but that would be hampered by an iPad, I'm all ears.

This is the crux of the issue. What problem are you trying to solve that can only be done with a tech that hasn't been released yet? It seems instead that you're trying to make the problems match the solution, cuz Google Glass is what the cool kids wear. And I'm sorry, but that's exactly what a lot of the top brass do with their pet projects -- we need this because I thought of it and it's different, not because it necessarily solves anything.

 

[LET73]

Seriously? Then take like 30 seconds to read my post (#37). And those are just the ones I could pull out of my ass. There's probably more. I just thought of two more tactical applications while writing this post.

So, there needs to be a dude standing there with a camera on his face for all that? I'm not saying it needs to be an either/or proposition, but why not one camera that does the same thing instead of one guy/multiple guys wearing the technology? I completely agree with your last point; there are situations where having individuals with their own cameras does make a difference. I just don't think it adds value to all situations.