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All things MV-22 Osprey
- Thread starter Dave Shutter
- Start date
This.
As a former grunt I recommend dumping the infantry in the back. You might need that fuel...fewer environmental complaints.
Yogi Santos
Member
So you'll be at Pensacola for IFS, API and Primary THEN Whiting THEN Corpus for multiengine?
Primary is in Whiting or Corpus (2 separate locations), not Pensacola. Other than that, everything else you said is correct. If you're trying to avoid moving a lot, and you're married, there's a good chance you can do Primary in Whiting, so you'd only have to move once to Corpus for multi.
Huh, I thought she was in the museum. But cool nonetheless.
JimboSlicee
Member
Hello all! Long time lurker, first time poster.
There is currently a severe surplus of junior pilots on the West Coast. As a result of this surplus, the West Coast squadrons have been tasked with curtailing the orders of 31-33 pilots who will have 24-30 months time in their squadron when September 2023 rolls around and join the FY23 movers list. My squadron has been given 4 of these slots to fill, and as you can guess I am one of the lucky chosen few. I would like to try and get a realistic idea of how screwed I am about to be compared to the rest of the FY23 movers. When September rolls around next year I will be short of hours for TAC (Currently at 315 hrs), so my lack of quals will most likely limit my possibilities as far as b billet selection goes.
Is there anyone who can offer any guidance for me as far as what I should expect for b billet selection and the rest of my career? Honestly, I'm feeling pretty down at this point, I feel like my flying career is coming to an abrupt and unexpected halt.
For some more background, there are currently 30ish copilots straight from 204 that have been sitting at the MAG for 8+ months, so I guess this is the Marine Corps solution to making sure everyone gets their taste of the fleet.
There is currently a severe surplus of junior pilots on the West Coast. As a result of this surplus, the West Coast squadrons have been tasked with curtailing the orders of 31-33 pilots who will have 24-30 months time in their squadron when September 2023 rolls around and join the FY23 movers list. My squadron has been given 4 of these slots to fill, and as you can guess I am one of the lucky chosen few. I would like to try and get a realistic idea of how screwed I am about to be compared to the rest of the FY23 movers. When September rolls around next year I will be short of hours for TAC (Currently at 315 hrs), so my lack of quals will most likely limit my possibilities as far as b billet selection goes.
Is there anyone who can offer any guidance for me as far as what I should expect for b billet selection and the rest of my career? Honestly, I'm feeling pretty down at this point, I feel like my flying career is coming to an abrupt and unexpected halt.
For some more background, there are currently 30ish copilots straight from 204 that have been sitting at the MAG for 8+ months, so I guess this is the Marine Corps solution to making sure everyone gets their taste of the fleet.
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Yeah there is no way to put a bow tie on this large turd the Marines gave you. I have heard of this issue due to the force structure drawdown and it is largely because the powers that be did not start pulling back the throttle on production until very recently.
Most communities took the CPG for aviation reductions and planned backwards. The VMMs essentially called the CMCs bluff and kept cranking them out. Additionally there is wild variation in MV-22 retention causing a shortage of 0-4/5 and especially in the last 5+ years. I’m removed from production so this is info through close contacts at different locations in the pipeline.
Any other job requiring hours or quals is probably off the table for you. There maybe a flying job at station or VMR you can swing but they are very desirable by all pilots and usually only have a handful of Captains.
My suggestion would be to start lining up post-Marine Corps options (USCG, USN, ANG) because it will be difficult to recover from the long term carreer effects. I would apply for the transition/conversion board for C-130s and/or begin conducting research on how to separate. You will essentially never fly an Osprey again if do not leave as a TAC. Even then it’s a dice roll because usually only division leads and NSI/WTIs get orders back to a MAG. Your competitiveness for 0-4+ will prove difficult.
The Corps does some dumb stuff, but the ham fisted nature of aviation force structure reductions is probably the dumbest thing I have seen in my entire career. This will leave scar tissue for years to come and we likely have yet to hear the end of it.
Bottom line: You are screwed in Marine Aviation, but you have a skill set in demand by every other service and corporation in the outside. Your long term aviation career looks bright if you chose to continue flying.
JimboSlicee
Member
I appreciate the reply and the honesty.
Some info I didn't include, from what I've gathered, essentially anything that precludes us from being an MV-22 pilot on the West Coast is being considered (accepting orders to Oki, Inter-service transfers). So joining the FY23 movers list is not the end all be all.
Some good news that I have heard: Flight school is currently under 60% the staff that they are supposed to have, so they are HURTING for instructors big time. I just don't know if they will accept pilots who are not aircraft commanders.
In the mean time, I guess I need to dust off my hiking boots off and get ready to be a real Marine again.
For what it’s worth, I have been stationed in Okinawa and it isn’t as bad as people make it out. In my day, the Marines typically understaffed the MATSGs and virtually all the pilots that got orders there had Fleet IP experience. That may have changed in the last 5-6 years with the pilot shortage. Officer staffing goals in TECOM usually are well below the FMF and other NAE requirements.
The post-continuation Captain exodus is about to start and manpower is going to have a problem on its hands. Unlike the previous decade there is not an excess of experienced Company grade officers with no home from legacy aircraft (CH-46E, AH-1W, UH-1N). RW-FW civilian transitions are having a huge impact as well.
Best of luck! Leadership is well aware of the impacts to Marines and families. You may not see it, but efforts are out there to minimize the long term affects.
I don’t know how deep your love for VMM and the USMC runs, but if you research your options and pursue something appealing while also casting a wide net for all things flying, this could turn out to be a really good thing to happen to you.
Dude, I am really sorry, like Hotdogs said there's really no sugarcoating that.
However, I will echo the sentiment to consider Oki. I was only there for a MEU as a skid dude, but 262/265 both seemed like great places to be and Futenma is a good time. MEU optempo kind of stinks but at least you won't be doing SoCal workups. My hunch is that many of your peers in this position will be understandably very suspicious of another "fleet" tour so if you put your name in the hat early I reckon you'll get the nod. As you know your hours/quals won't be exactly competitive for any of the desirable DIFOP B-billets although who knows with CNATRA manning being what it is (I'd say that's certainly worth asking the question; as an aside, take a good long look at your experience level and what's going to be asked of you as a VT IP). A spin in Oki would get you valuable flight time and quals and may set you up nicely for a production tour afterward.
This stinks, and I'm sorry you're bearing the cost of some goober's dumb decision, but I think there's a few paths forward. Good luck.
Dude find out where you'd like to settle down and rush the Air Guard in your state. With your experience and quals you will get picked up in a heartbeat. You will enjoy great QOL. You will be eligible for every MWS the Guard/AF flys...
You may find this is a blessing.
JimboSlicee
Member
Thank you all for taking your time to respond. Your opinions helped me out a lot!
After weighing the options and talking it over with my wife, I am going to make a push for Oki. I think this will be my best move to continue flying and potentially give me some leverage the next time I am up for orders. I think I will be able to make something out of this turd the Marine Corps gave me after all.
As for the Air Guard, that is my plan as soon as the USMC is done with me.
After weighing the options and talking it over with my wife, I am going to make a push for Oki. I think this will be my best move to continue flying and potentially give me some leverage the next time I am up for orders. I think I will be able to make something out of this turd the Marine Corps gave me after all.
As for the Air Guard, that is my plan as soon as the USMC is done with me.
Just for your planning purposes, 2 years out is a good time to start the rush/meet and greet process of getting to the ANG. Hopefully you'll have a CONUS sunset tour, because it's going to be really tough (and expensive) to join an ANG unit from Japan.
Also- don't take the severance money if you get passed over twice as it obligates you go the IRR and the USMCR isn't releasing any O-3s from the IRR to come to the ANG and/or AFR. There's a MARADMIN from a few years ago that is referenced in this, but they're still following the process until it's recinded. Get a clean break from the USMC. Also, get a flight physical on your way out the door (and a NATOPS check) if you can. It's easier to join folks if they're medically up and current in something.
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