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All things MV-22 Osprey

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
For the next couple years, it will be, finish helo flt training, do a few years in the fleet, then apply for a transition. If you have 2 years or more before you would finish, they'll probably split tiltrotors off as you finish primary, e.g. choose between jets, props, helos, and tiltrotors. That's speaking for Marines--everyone else will be SOL for a long while.
 

bunk22

Super *********
pilot
Super Moderator
phrogdriver said:
The Navy won't be getting the Osprey for many years, if it ever does decide to get it. The Navy's helos are all scheduled to convert to H-60 variants. That money is already spoken for. The Marines and Air Force are the only branches set to receive the V-22. The Osprey would make a good COD platform though--that would be interesting.

As the COD currently operates (cyclic ops), the V-22 does not work very effeciently. Might as well just recover 53's. The deck has to stop and sideline all aircraft for the V-22 to do it's thing. That's actually a big issue, along with the fact that I don't believe it carries more cargo or can go further or faster than a C-2. Not much of an improvement in capabilites if that's the case (as far as carrier logistics go).
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
I'm by no means a COD guru, but it would seem to me that you could gain an advantage in commonality by using a vertical lift asset for COD, since it could 1)eventually be the sole aerial resupply asset and take HC as well 2)deliver stuff to any ship in the battlegroup as req'd, not just the carrier. Basically, the same reasons the Marines like it--speed and range of a fixed-wing, vertical capabilities of a helo. The first I ever heard of a V22 as a COD asset was this thread, but it seemed like a cool idea to me. But, then again, I'm a fan of the Osprey, and all I've ever ridden were gator freighters (plus a cruiser as a mid).
 

bunk22

Super *********
pilot
Super Moderator
I believe thats one of the reasons why the V-22 is becoming popular, it can deliver not only to the carrier but other at sea assests as well. Our current skipper is big on the V-22 (he wrote some big paper on it a few years back) and likes the commonality capability. The COD mission definitely isn't hard but the way it works into cyclic ops, it's just not easy with the V-22. Maybe it's just COD guys wanting to keep that tailhook status.
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Wasp Finishes Osprey Exercise, Heads Home

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,usn2_120204.00.html

Wasp Finishes Osprey Exercise, Heads Home
By Journalist 2nd Class Derrick Inglé
Navy News Service
December 02, 2004

ABOARD USS WASP, At Sea - USS Wasp (LHD 1) completed a 10-day exercise testing the V-22A Osprey off the Mid-Atlantic coast, Nov. 12-23.

The multipurpose amphibious assault ship spent nearly two weeks at sea helping more than 100 flight engineers, contractors, government employees and Marine Corps pilots collect data and aviation information about the military's future transport aircraft.

"We came out here to perform a series of tests, like how the Osprey interacts with other aircraft in the air and on the flight deck," explained Troy Kindall, a flight test engineer at Naval Air Station Pataxent River, Md. "We tested its short takeoff capabilities with 50,000 pounds of cargo."

"We had problems with the Osprey in the past on board USS Iwo Jima (LHD 7)," Kindall continued. "Whenever another V-22 would come in for a landing, the Osprey parked on the flight deck would suddenly shift from left to right. It was pretty dangerous. We came out to further monitor the aircraft-to-aircraft interaction. This time we didn't see any movement that resembled what we saw in the past.

"We've also done regular launching and landing tests with the crew on the flight deck, while getting a few of our pilots qualified to fly both during the day and at night," he added. "This was a first for us and Wasp. These were our most successful tests in six years."


Click here to find out more!

Osprey test pilot Marine Maj. Frank Conway was one of five pilots to qualify to fly at night using night vision goggles and night vision devices. The two-year V-22 pilot said he preferred the fleet's new mode of transportation to its predecessor, the CH-46 Sea Knight helicopter, because of its jet speed, long-range capabilities and convenient pilot-friendly mechanisms.

"The difference between flying the V-22 and the CH-46 is like night and day," said Conway of Lindenword, N.J. "The Osprey has top of the line equipment with a computer that pretty much does everything. The V-22 is an airplane that occasionally hovers for takeoffs and landings. You instantly go from hovering vertically off the deck to an airplane that can travel 200 knots in 10-12 seconds. The deceleration is even more impressive. It's like having "Bugs Bunny' air brakes and stopping in mid-air. The Osprey will better serve the mission of the troops and the Navy/Marine Corps team."

Other pilots and testers agreed. With the Osprey's ability to go as fast as 272 knots while carrying up to 60,000 pounds, the military's new hawk may be the best bird for the job.

"When this aircraft hits the fleet, Sailors and Marines better watch out, because it's going to take us places we've never dreamed of," said Marine Staff Sgt. Craig Maynard, a developmental tester from Marine Unit 22. "I come from a 46 background, yet the V-22 is better for our missions. It carries two times more than its predecessor, it travels three times the distance and the navigation system is better for our pilots.

"We came on board not just to do exercises, but to also get members of the ship's air department familiar with what they'll be working with in the future," he added. "I was impressed with how well the Sailors on the flight deck adjusted to the Osprey."

For Sailors on the flight deck, nothing was taken for granted during the test period. They spent a lot of time studying the Osprey and preparing for its arrival.

"It's a combination of what we usually work with under way. It lands like a CH-46 and jets off like an AV-8B Harrier, so the adjustment was fairly easy," said Enlisted Launch Officer Aviation Boatswain's Mate (Handling) 2nd Class (AW) Devon Caldeira, of New York City. "We went to numerous safety briefs and watched several videos prior to the Ospreys' arrival. We were instructed to take extreme caution, even though it's actually a lot safer than other helicopters. Launching and landing the V-22s these past 10 days was new and exciting. It was a great experience."

Even Sailors who don't launch and recover thought working with the 60,500-pound transformer aircraft was a unique experience.

"Moving and chaining aircraft was always exciting for me, especially when I get to work with something new like the V-22," said Airman Gustavo Reyes, a native of New York City. "It transforms in mid-air, and it can transport more cargo and Marines. I'm looking forward to working with these birds in years to come."
 

frogman

Registered User
Reporters take a ride on the Osprey

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/071405dnbusosprey.22e4c61.html

Reporters take V-22 test flights

Pentagon lets troubled aircraft testify on its own behalf

07:35 AM CDT on Thursday, July 14, 2005

By RICHARD WHITTLE / The Dallas Morning News

MARINE CORPS AIR STATION NEW RIVER, N.C. – I thought I might be retired before this happened.

Wednesday, after more than two decades of design and testing and fatal crashes and redesign and retesting, the Marine Corps let the news media ride on the exotic tilt-rotor aircraft known as the V-22 Osprey for the first time.

And after nearly two decades of writing about the helicopter-airplane hybrid, I was in the first group of reporters and photographers who climbed aboard.

Friends and relatives raised eyebrows. After all, 23 Marines perished in two fatal V-22 crashes in 2000 – disasters that nearly led the Pentagon to cancel the $50.5 billion project to develop the futuristic troop transport.

And in the years since, enough critics have declared the Osprey simply too daring in concept and complex in design to fly safely. In the public mind, the V-22 has come to be regarded as risky at best and, at worst, a death trap.

I was never nervous. I figured the Marines wouldn't have invited us if they weren't sure the Osprey was ready for prime time.

It was quite a ride.

V-22 program officials scheduled the Media Day at New River as part of a push to publicize what they regard as stunningly good results in operational tests earlier this year.

Air Force Col. Craig Olson, of Dripping Springs, Texas, hopes to win Pentagon approval in September to begin "full-rate production" of the Osprey, which is partly built in Fort Worth and Amarillo by Bell Helicopter Textron Inc. in a 50-50 partnership with the Pennsylvania-based helicopter division of Boeing Co.

The Marines plan to build 360 Ospreys. The Air Force has plans to buy 50 for special operations and other missions, while the Navy has a long-range plan to take 48. Ospreys currently cost about $71 million each, but the goal is to get the price down to $58 million a plane by 2010.

If all goes according to plan, the first squadron could be operational in 2007. But first, Col. Olson admits, the Marines need to dispel some popular distrust.

The goal, said Lt. Gen. Michael Hough, Marine deputy commandant for aviation, is "to prove to American parents that their sons and daughters are safe flying this airplane."

The day's events began with a quick demonstration in which two V-22s dropped two squads of Marines in a grassy area near the tarmac. Then we got a two-hour briefing in the pilots' ready room at VMX-22, the test squadron that has tested eight redesigned V-22s.

Those tests followed more than 2,000 previous hours flown by test pilots from Bell and Boeing, and the Naval Air Systems Command after the Osprey had been grounded, investigated and redesigned.

In the ready room, Marine Col. Glenn "Bluto" Walters, commander of VMX-22, and Col. Olson gave us facts and figures on how well the V-22 has done flying 4,400 hours of mock combat missions in conditions from snow to sand-swirling deserts.

Col. Walters said the Osprey has done it all – including some things some critics still insist this exotic aircraft can't.

The Osprey has two huge rotors on its wingtips mounted on "nacelles" that swivel. By tilting its rotors vertically, the V-22 can take off and land like a helicopter. By tilting them forward, it can fly like a turboprop airplane – at about twice the speed of troop transport helicopters the Marines now use.

Skeptics have argued that the transition from forward flight to helicopter mode and back was too slow to get into and out of landing zones under fire.

They've said the downwash from the aircraft's powerful rotors is so strong that troops would be unable to "fast-rope" down from a hovering Osprey the way they can from helicopters.

The video showed the Ospreys of VMX-22 doing all that and more. In one scene, Marines fast-roped out the back ramp of an Osprey, just as they do out the sides of helicopters. In another, a V-22 set down in a desert, where it disappeared in a cloud of dust but – Col. Walters assured us – landed and took off without mishap.

"What he's really saying is, they passed everything with flying colors," Gen. Hough translated.

A first

Why the V-22 matters
to Bell-Boeing

The partners expect to sell 458 Ospreys to the U.S. military for at least $58 million each.

It will mean jobs for Texas, since assembly will take place in Amarillo and Fort Worth.

Proven reliability of the military version is likely to result in sales of a commercial tilt-rotor aircraft, which is still in development.

After the briefing, those of us in the first "stick" – military lingo for a group flying together – were given a safety briefing: what to do in case of a fire or other emergency. Then we were handed waivers to sign absolving the Marine Corps of any liability.

Then we walked down through a hangar, jammed on tight helmets with ear-protectors and goggles called cranials and filed across the steamy tarmac to two waiting Ospreys whose rotors were whirling loudly in the vertical position.

My stick included a CNN crew of three; three other print reporters who, like me, have been covering the V-22 for years; and representatives from the Naval Air Systems Command and Bell-Boeing.

"You're the first non-government people to fly on this," Col. Walters told us. "I'll be real interested to see what you think."

Jamie McIntyre, CNN's good-natured senior Pentagon correspondent, quipped: "Before or after we stop throwing up?"

Lt. Col. Christopher Seymour, 40, of Houston, was our pilot, backed by a co-pilot and two crewmen.

V-22s, like all military helicopters, are loud. But unlike a helicopter, the V-22's rotors don't make that "whump-whump" sound. We taxied out to the runway without the shudder and rattle of a chopper.

We had been on the runway only seconds when the Osprey started rolling faster, lifted slowly off the ground, then rocketed upward as Lt. Col. Seymour tilted the rotors forward. It felt like flooring it in a Corvette.

Quickly we were up to 500 feet, heading down the New River toward the North Carolina coast 20 miles away. We whisked over boats and a bridge, then banked hard left, leveled off and cruised north above Onslow Beach, where the Marines practice amphibious landings.
Fly guy

Richard Whittle is a Washington-based reporter who has covered the defense industry and military affairs for The Dallas Morning News for 21 years.

He was among the first journalists Wednesday to ride the V-22 Osprey, the controversial tilt-rotor aircraft. After more than two decades in design and development, the V-22 may get funding this fall to begin production.

We flew north a few minutes, then Lt. Col. Seymour put the Osprey into a 2G turn that pressed me back against the bulkhead, circling us around to head back south.

Out the rear ramp, we could see coastal marshlands as we headed back inland. Then the Osprey began to decelerate almost as quickly as it had gained speed and settled toward the ground.

Lt. Col. Seymour set the Osprey down quickly but gently in the grass and let the wheels touch the ground for a few seconds. Then we lifted off again, rotors roaring, and hovered over the landing zone.

Now the Osprey began turning slowly in a circle as it hovered at 50 or 60 feet. Still hovering, Lt. Col. Seymour put the aircraft into a slow drift to the right, then to the left.

Then without warning, the fuselage began to tilt upward, the engines whined and we shot into a steep climb, gaining speed and enough altitude to make my ears pop.

I looked over at Jamie McIntyre, a longtime colleague and friend who suffers from motion sickness. He was looking green around the gills. One of the crew chiefs noticed too and worked his way over to hand him an airsick bag.

None too soon. As we circled the airfield in preparation for landing, Jamie began using the airsick bag for its intended purpose, and in some distress.

With the nacelles pointed up and slightly forward, we came down steadily, landing like a conventional airplane – but with the rotors tilted upward at an angle – and taxiing quickly back to the hangar.

As we sat down inside to a lunch of barbecue sandwiches and hot dogs, I asked Jamie, who wasn't eating, how he'd enjoyed the flight.

"I'm proud to be the first civilian to throw up in the V-22," he joked.

And I was there.

E-mail rwhittle@dallasnews.com

THE V-22'S LENGTHY TAKEOFF

1983: Navy awards a $550 million design contract to Bell Helicopter and Boeing.

March 19, 1989: The V-22 tilt-rotor (nicknamed the Osprey) makes its maiden flight, hovering 30 feet in the air for 15 minutes.

April 1989: Then-Defense Secretary Dick Cheney begins a four-year campaign to kill the program.

June 1991: A V-22 crashes in Delaware, injuring 2 pilots.

July 1992: A V-22 plunges into the Potomac River, killing three Marines and four civilians.

August 1992: Presidential candidate Bill Clinton throws his support behind the V-22. Mr. Cheney and the George H.W. Bush administration drop their opposition.

April 2000: A V-22 crashes in Arizona, killing 19 Marines.

December 2000: A V-22 crashes in North Carolina, killing four Marines. The program is grounded for 17 months.

June 2001: A Pentagon investigation says Marine Corps officers falsified V-22 maintenance records.

June 2005: A V-22 supplier is indicted for falsely certifying tubing for the aircraft.

June 2005: The V-22 passes operational tests and appears to be headed for full production.

SOURCE: Dallas Morning News research
 

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
From USMC Public Affairs today:

Commandant Announces MV-22 Osprey Deployment

The Commandant of the Marine Corps, Gen. James T. Conway, announced today in a press briefing in the Pentagon the planned deployment of the first operational MV-22 Osprey squadron.

Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 263 (VMM-263) of Marine Aircraft Group 26, 2d Marine Aircraft Wing, II Marine Expeditionary Force, will deploy to Iraq in September for seven months.

Commanded by Lt. Col. Paul Rock, VMM-263 consists of 171 officers and Marines and 10 MV-22B Osprey Medium Tiltrotor aircraft. Their mission will be to provide medium assault support to II Marine Expeditionary Force (Forward) in Iraq.

This is an historic moment for the Marine Corps. The MV-22 Osprey is the world’s first operational tiltrotor aircraft, with the ability to take off and land vertically, then rotate its proprotors forward to fly like a conventional turboprop airplane. The Marine Corps stood up the world’s first tiltrotor combat squadron, VMM-263, in March 2006. VMM-263 will conduct the first operational deployment of a tiltrotor to Iraq later this year.

With thousands of safe flight hours of testing and training, in environments ranging from shipboard to the desert, the MV-22 is a mature technology that Osprey crews are eager to bring to bear on today’s missions. The decision to send this aircraft to combat in Iraq underscores our confidence in it. The officers and Marines who will fly this aircraft in combat are highly trained, skilled and dedicated professionals; they are the best America has to offer.

The quantum leap in capability represented by the Osprey will give the Marine Air Ground Task Force (MAGTF) significantly increased flexibility and reach. The Commandant's priority is to provide Marines in combat the best, most capable equipment available. The Osprey will replace the CH-46 Sea Knight and as such represents enhanced capability. The MV-22 can fly almost three times as fast, five times as far, and much higher than the aircraft it replaces. This gives commanders many more options, and offers improved survivability to the Marines it will transport.

The Osprey provides a much greater degree of surprise, safety and combat survivability than the aircraft it will replace. The MV-22 can transit to the target in airplane mode, more than twice as fast but 80% quieter than a helicopter, dramatically increasing surprise and reducing exposure. It can exploit its huge altitude and range advantages to avoid threats, vary routes and pick unpredictable landing zones beyond the reach of helicopters.

The Osprey also boasts a 75% reduction in infrared signature, and is up to seven times less vulnerable to small arms fire than aircraft it will replace, as proven through live-fire testing. It has triple-redundant hydraulics and flight controls, and can safely operate with only one of its engines turning both proprotors.

If you have further questions or would like further information contact Lt. Col. Scott Fazekas at (703) 614-8029.

-USMC-
 

chilidog

Registered User
It's on the front page of NYtimes.com and they just had to quote that Gaillaird fool who wrote that "research" paper called 'Wonder-Weapon or Widow-Maker?' (I believe the validity of that paper has already been discussed at length in another thread.)

Still, awesome news!
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
Hey Chuck Mk23, I guess it's really going to see combat, isn't it?

I checked out the NYT article and video. Absolute propaganda. They both present the critics' arguments as facts, then just quote the Marines, such as LtGen Castellaw.

If I hear one more jackass say that the Osprey comes into an LZ at 9mph or can't do "radical jinking manuevers" like a helicopter, I'll take a rolled-up copy of the sunday New York Times and shove it up his ass. If they want to engage the Osprey, fine. Do it on tactics, cost, etc, not this completely bogus crap.
 
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jaquin

New Member
Sincere disagreements

Hey Chuck Mk23, I guess it's really going to see combat, isn't it?

I checked out the NYT article and video. Absolute propaganda. They both present the critics' arguments as facts, then just quote the Marines, such as LtGen Castellaw.

If I hear one more jackass say that the Osprey comes into an LZ at 9mph or can't do "radical jinking manuevers" like a helicopter, I'll take the sunday New York Times and shove it up his ass. If they want to engage the Osprey, fine. Do it on tactics, cost, etc, not this completely bogus crap.

Be gentle with them, they are concerned and rightly so for the lives of the men and women who will fly and fight from these very new machines.
The concerns are genuine.
That said, for people who really do not have the complete facts with which to compare the MV-22 to the helo's which it will replace other than speed and carry capacity and range....the question that is rightly raised is...at what cost in lives.
I don't suggest that I believe the program should be cancelled, or all the critiques are automatically true.
I am comforted to know that the USMC commandant and his wife took a trip on these machines. I have to trust these people to do what is best not only for their branch of service, but best for all of us.
 

Carno

Insane
Be gentle with them, they are concerned and rightly so for the lives of the men and women who will fly and fight from these very new machines.
The concerns are genuine.
That said, for people who really do not have the complete facts with which to compare the MV-22 to the helo's which it will replace other than speed and carry capacity and range....the question that is rightly raised is...at what cost in lives.
I don't suggest that I believe the program should be cancelled, or all the critiques are automatically true.
I am comforted to know that the USMC commandant and his wife took a trip on these machines. I have to trust these people to do what is best not only for their branch of service, but best for all of us.

Ironically you quoted one of the very men who actually do fly the Osprey.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
But now its not Anachronistic

I want a full-sized copy of that poster/advertisement so badly. Too bad they had to stop using it due to the PC police.

I guess you could say the Osprey comes into the zone at 9mph, in the same sense that any vertical-lift aircraft comes in at 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1, and finally zero mph when it comes to a stop.
 

jaquin

New Member
No Accident

"Ironically you quoted one of the very men who actually do fly the Osprey."

Twasnt by accident.
You folks are specialists and can sort wheat from chaff, no pun intended.
NY Times are generalist :D
Who do they believe in a case like this aircraft with as many deaths before deployment??
Not that they couldnt have done more research and found the same things I as a generalist found, enough to satisfy myself that the deployment is reasonable and the machine has passed is op-evals.
Of course the fact that Lt Col Odin Lieberman was cashierd for falsifying data during development phase does not make NY Times and others very likely to trust officers who speak well of programs in which they have a significant vested interest.
Occams Razor cuts two ways.
 
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