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All things MV-22 Osprey
- Thread starter Dave Shutter
- Start date
Then, is the general consensus that only an AH-1 can provide this coverage properly? I've been to an Army demonstration where an airbase was secured; they used A-10's and Apaches. We all know the Apache is rarely used in actual combat, so wouldn't the Harrier be a suitable equivalent to the A-10? That's a good point about guns on an Osprey. Probably wouldn't be a very good idea to give a crewmember a .50 and a porthole on the side of the aircraft with those big rotor blades spinning around out there!
As a former Air Officer of 2/8 and the current Air Officer for 1/23, I find it extremely difficult incorporating this "Thing" into our current ops. Difficult to load from a ship because you can only load one at a time because only one will fit on the fantail because it is so damn big. Creates difficulty with creating an assault package. LZ's have to be WIDE 21/2x larger then what is necessary for a 53. It's transition into an LZ is a heck of a lot slower into an LZ then the 53 making it more vulnerable to manpads or ground fire. Do you think the belly is armor plated...Heck no. Pretty hard to judge your rotor arc in a tight LZ because the arc is centered over the wings vice the fuselage. I have more but this is just a few of my gripes. Give me a new Kawasaki CH-46 anyday! The Japanese have really done wonders with that airplane. I just can't see myself "Fast roping" on to a building using the MV-22. My thoughts....Frumby
Attack Pilot
Major USMC
Attack Pilot
Major USMC
The Apache got used in some actual combat during Anaconda just a few months ago! Granted, for what they were doing, they would've been better off w/Cobras, but you do what ya can with what ya got.
The AV8B definitely is not an A-10 equivalent. While it goes "low and slow" sometimes, it's not the same kind of low and slow the A-10 does. The AV8, like most fast-movers, isn't suited to suppress ground targets in the manner of a helo or A-10 type platform. It needs a lower stall speed, longer endurance, more bullets for its gun, etc.
Fast movers escorting helos fly more of a CAP-type profile, flying overlapping orbits thousands of feet over the helos. That works well to stave off MiGs, but helos are more often worried about the bad guy popping off a .50 cal, RPG, or MANPAD. You need something that can turn right twd that threat and suppress it until the assaults can get away. That's hard to do from 15K'+ and 450+ KIAS. Picking out a guy with a Stinger is hard enough already, plus, you need the right ordinance, and the GPS-guided smartbomb or L-MAV isn't really the right tool for the job.
Maybe the Corps needs to bring back the OV-10 Bronco. I'll volunteer in a heartbeat.
Phrogs phorever
The AV8B definitely is not an A-10 equivalent. While it goes "low and slow" sometimes, it's not the same kind of low and slow the A-10 does. The AV8, like most fast-movers, isn't suited to suppress ground targets in the manner of a helo or A-10 type platform. It needs a lower stall speed, longer endurance, more bullets for its gun, etc.
Fast movers escorting helos fly more of a CAP-type profile, flying overlapping orbits thousands of feet over the helos. That works well to stave off MiGs, but helos are more often worried about the bad guy popping off a .50 cal, RPG, or MANPAD. You need something that can turn right twd that threat and suppress it until the assaults can get away. That's hard to do from 15K'+ and 450+ KIAS. Picking out a guy with a Stinger is hard enough already, plus, you need the right ordinance, and the GPS-guided smartbomb or L-MAV isn't really the right tool for the job.
Maybe the Corps needs to bring back the OV-10 Bronco. I'll volunteer in a heartbeat.
Phrogs phorever
I second that Phrog! The OV-10 was an awesome platform! Is that what it's mission was? CAS? I thought it was used more for FAC? Yeah, good points about the AV-8, I guess that's one airplane you want to stay away from slow-flight in (danged anhedral wings). We just watched a video in API where some guy stalled his doing a fly by of some ship and flipped it upside down before drilling a hole into the ocean. Scary stuff.
Another question then. With the 53's aerial refueling capability (I assume the AH-1 doesn't have this capability), wouldn't it leave behind any type of CAS flying an extended mission? In that case, it would only have its .50's for protection (granted some is better than none), which isn't very comforting. Seems to me that we need a close-in type aircraft, such as the A-10 or OV-10 with weapons, more than we need a long range transport like the V-22. Maybe an AV-22 (picture an AC-130 set-up on the Osprey! AAAAAtack!)
I'm guessing that the planners are thinking that with the Osprey's long range capabilities, it's going to fly so far behind enemy lines that the enemy won't be set-up to attack it in the LZ (hard to imagine an enemy with that much "depth" in their defense). If the mission requires the Marines to be flown into a potentially hot LZ, then the 53 would be used (or the Osprey), with gun support from the Cobra.
I'm guessing that the planners are thinking that with the Osprey's long range capabilities, it's going to fly so far behind enemy lines that the enemy won't be set-up to attack it in the LZ (hard to imagine an enemy with that much "depth" in their defense). If the mission requires the Marines to be flown into a potentially hot LZ, then the 53 would be used (or the Osprey), with gun support from the Cobra.
The OV-10, as the "O" implies, was primarily an observation/FAC(A) platform. I just thought of it in this context as the last armed turboprop we had. I would think it would help in the escort context by either marking targets for others, or by using it's 2.75" rockets or other ordinance. Plus, I've just always thought it was pretty bad-ass.
The logical escort for an Osprey would indeed be another V-22 with approprite armament, maybe a militarized Bell 609. The brass keeps denying this is under consideration. Probably 'cause we've committed to the AH1Z/UH1Y programs.
One rarely plans to go to the hot LZ. The Army never intended to go into a hot LZ in Anaconda, but did. It's nice to have options if it happens. The "LZ" at Camp Rhino in Afghanistan was under constant surveillance before the insert. That's why they didn't need escort.
Phrogs phorever
The logical escort for an Osprey would indeed be another V-22 with approprite armament, maybe a militarized Bell 609. The brass keeps denying this is under consideration. Probably 'cause we've committed to the AH1Z/UH1Y programs.
One rarely plans to go to the hot LZ. The Army never intended to go into a hot LZ in Anaconda, but did. It's nice to have options if it happens. The "LZ" at Camp Rhino in Afghanistan was under constant surveillance before the insert. That's why they didn't need escort.
Phrogs phorever
I don't know much about them, but It doesn't take a scientist to know that they're big, clunky, cumbersome and ugly. I think they gotta dream up a more elegant and intimidating design--something that doesn't resemble the spruce goose.
The concept of vertical take off and fast and distant travel is awsome though.
Semper Fi
The concept of vertical take off and fast and distant travel is awsome though.
Semper Fi
V-22 Osprey Pipeline?
Sorry guyz, firstly for missing this in my searches of the forum (if it exists in an updated form) and secondly for not being quite sure of which forum to put this in.
First off, I'd like to know if the estimated operation time for the Osprey in 2007 extends to the Navy? Should I be selected for SNA Navy, as I hope, will I ever have a chance to select this? Also, if it is not available to newbies to train into at first (accepting only crossovers), which platfrom would be the best to get into to garner a better undeterstnding of the operation of a tiltrotor? Helo's seems to be logical, but it also spends a good deal of time in "plane mode" (my own term, sorry if there is one more appropriate).
The Navy is what is most important to me over the type of aircraft, so I doubt I would opt to go into the Marine Corps just to fly an Osprey.
Another important question, is the role the Osprey may have in the Navy. They say Search and Rescue and Vertical Replenishment. Now, S&R is a no brainer, but what is Vertical Replenishment? Also, what aircraft would the Osprey be replacing? I like the idea of Search and Rescue, and assume it would be mostly Helo's? Correct me if I am wrong.
Truth be told, I would be geeked to fly anything for the Navy, even if it were just throwing paper airplanes out of my office window. I have to say, though, based on my readings I would love to get into the Osprey.
Thanks for anyone who wants to respond to this, I know this has probably already been gone over, but I could not find the specifics I was looking for.
Sorry guyz, firstly for missing this in my searches of the forum (if it exists in an updated form) and secondly for not being quite sure of which forum to put this in.
First off, I'd like to know if the estimated operation time for the Osprey in 2007 extends to the Navy? Should I be selected for SNA Navy, as I hope, will I ever have a chance to select this? Also, if it is not available to newbies to train into at first (accepting only crossovers), which platfrom would be the best to get into to garner a better undeterstnding of the operation of a tiltrotor? Helo's seems to be logical, but it also spends a good deal of time in "plane mode" (my own term, sorry if there is one more appropriate).
The Navy is what is most important to me over the type of aircraft, so I doubt I would opt to go into the Marine Corps just to fly an Osprey.
Another important question, is the role the Osprey may have in the Navy. They say Search and Rescue and Vertical Replenishment. Now, S&R is a no brainer, but what is Vertical Replenishment? Also, what aircraft would the Osprey be replacing? I like the idea of Search and Rescue, and assume it would be mostly Helo's? Correct me if I am wrong.
Truth be told, I would be geeked to fly anything for the Navy, even if it were just throwing paper airplanes out of my office window. I have to say, though, based on my readings I would love to get into the Osprey.
Thanks for anyone who wants to respond to this, I know this has probably already been gone over, but I could not find the specifics I was looking for.
I read an email the other day concerning V-22's and carrier logistics sent to us COD instructors at VAW-120. The C-2A(R) is getting on in age and a replacement is definitely needed. The Navy is looking at buying 48 V-22's for logistics. It's been talked about before but is now at high levels with serious consideration. It probably won't happen anytime soon but 10 years from now, V-22's could possibly fly carrier logistic missions.
The Navy won't be getting the Osprey for many years, if it ever does decide to get it. The Navy's helos are all scheduled to convert to H-60 variants. That money is already spoken for. The Marines and Air Force are the only branches set to receive the V-22. The Osprey would make a good COD platform though--that would be interesting.
vegita1220
User
I vaguely recall considerations towards using the V-22 to fulfill the CSA requirements...as impossible as that sounds(how the hell do you fit a radome on a tiltrotor?).
Alright, well, I'm not too familiar with the start to finish training that goes on, but it all starts with OCS so let's go from there.
So, does it go OCS, API, Primary....(and then what else?).
At what point in the process do you say "I wanna fly tiltrotors"?
Just my incessant curiosity kicking in, much to everyone annoyance I'm sure.
So, does it go OCS, API, Primary....(and then what else?).
At what point in the process do you say "I wanna fly tiltrotors"?
Just my incessant curiosity kicking in, much to everyone annoyance I'm sure.