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"ALL IN" on the 2nd AMENDMENT???

^ good news so far. A lot of groups have been popping up on campus here as well. I just joined the Appalachian State Students for Campus CCW group.
 
The Chief said:
Took the tube back home.
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Did you stop by for a pint too there Chief? ;)

snake020 said:
This looks promising:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080318/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_guns
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Trying to read the tea leaves of the Supreme Court is a full time job for a lot of people, I wouldn't read too much into the speculation yet. And don't get too happy reading that article, the second paragraph says they agree that governments have the right to regulate firearms.
 
Don't think that the article is too pro-2nd amendment. If you click throught the 44 or so pictures you will get a different spin on it. A few have a caption about how Euros don't understand why Americans love guns so much when there are 84 gun deaths a day, with ~30 being homicides. Talk about spin. Does that mean the remaining 50 or so a day are LEGAL shooting deaths? Looks like that alone makes the case.

The Chicago Trib (my hometown paper) even ran an article about how in between 2004-2007 there were ~43,000 gun crimes in the city limits. For your information, Chicago has a complete ban on guns.....goes to show the merits of gun control....
 
Flash said:
Did you stop by for a pint too there Chief? ;)



Trying to read the tea leaves of the Supreme Court is a full time job for a lot of people, I wouldn't read too much into the speculation yet. And don't get too happy reading that article, the second paragraph says they agree that governments have the right to regulate firearms.
Click to expand...

Further down in the article is a paragraph which indicates that the majority favor an individual right to own guns.
 
feddoc said:
... indicates that the majority favor an individual right to own guns.
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I listened to the hearing on CSPAN last nite, tentatively optimistic, but flip side of me is frightened out of me skivvies.

Understand DC Police have stepped up their "Safe Homes Initiative". The plan as I understand is for squads of cops going door to door asking for permission to search homes for guns, promising amenesty if they find any. Of course they would seize all handguns on the spot. If resident refused a search, they would then get a search warrant, declaring refusal by resident as probable cause. Some judges are on board, have heard.

Their calculus, as I understand it, is that they will lose on the gun ban issue but will use SHI to collect as many guns as possible before ban is lifted.

See http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141441
 
scoober78 said:
False.

http://www.isp.state.il.us/docs/ordinances/chicago.pdf

Don't quote it if you don't know it.
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......forgive me for being too general....

For all intents and purposes, Chicago is VERY similar to D.C. It will be interesting to see that if the pro-gun side is successful in D.C. attention may be directed towards Chicago.

But here is the article I was referring to in regards to statistics. Gun control is stupid, evidence follows:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-guns_bdmar16,0,2048671.story
 
The Chief said:
Understand DC Police have stepped up their "Safe Homes Initiative". The plan as I understand is for squads of cops going door to door asking for permission to search homes for guns, promising amenesty if they find any. Of course they would seize all handguns on the spot. If resident refused a search, they would then get a search warrant, declaring refusal by resident as probable cause. Some judges are on board, have heard.
Click to expand...
I guess the District likes their laws being struck down in high courts - since a refusal to consent to search isn't probable cause for a search warrant. They have to develop probable cause on their own. My google-foo is weak today, or I'd have a reference...
 
A4sForever said:
[/I]Like the old Chinese curse says: ... "May you live in interesting times ..." Oh, and by the way, private ownership of firearms is banned in Red China. :)
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So the way I read what you posted there... You're saying that a totalitarian state would possibly be threatened if the citizens were armed? Something along the lines of, People should not fear their governments, governments should fear their people.? <--- I said that first...in this thread...

That individual freedom should be in the hands of the masses and not concentrated with (and thereby at the "mercy" of) the state?

Who woulda' thunk it?
 
PropStop said:
So the way I read what you posted there... You're saying that a totalitarian state would possibly be threatened if the citizens were armed? Something along the lines of, People should not fear their governments, governments should fear their people.? <--- I said that first...in this thread...
That individual freedom should be in the hands of the masses and not concentrated with (and thereby at the "mercy" of) the state?

Who woulda' thunk it?
Click to expand...

So I guess the United Kingdom and Australia will fall under the darkness of tyranny any day now? :icon_roll
 
violent crime has gone up ten fold in the last ten years since the UK and the Aussies voluntarily gave up firearms. That's a fact. Google an old prof of mine....Gary Kleck from Florida State. An armed society is a polite society.
 
Mumbles said:
violent crime has gone up ten fold in the last ten years since the UK and the Aussies voluntarily gave up firearms. That's a fact. Google an old prof of mine....Gary Kleck from Florida State. An armed society is a polite society.
Click to expand...

I was arguing the civil liberties aspects of gun ownership and their effect on freedom, but if you want to deflect the debate to the crime aspect you might want to do a little bit more research.

Instead of relying solely on your professor and his stats, I went to the source and looked up the official crime statistics for the UK and Australia. Here are some statistics:

United Kingdom

Reported Violent Crime:

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/Page66.asp

As for the 'dramatic rise in violent crime' in the UK, it appears to have more to do with a change in the methodology for reporting crimes than in an actual crime increase. It is explained at the bottom of the page and is obvious by the two drastically different numbers for 1998/9, an almost doubling of the reported crime rate.

Want more proof? Here is the British Crime Survey's longer term statistics on violent crime. Crime peaked before the latest restrictions on on gun ownership were passed in 1997, including banning handguns (which only affected 0.1% of the population that owned them) and actually continued declining after 1997.

Violent Crime (British Crime Survey):

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/Page63.asp

An independent explanation and further data about both stats and methodology:

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs06/crime-statistics-independent-review-06.pdf

Australia

Australia was a little harder to find, but the stats are relatively similar:

Homicide rate has been steady for years, and has actually declined since more restrictive gun laws passed, and the rate is less than half the US's rate:

http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/4C6EF961841B2EA4CA256E7D00002650?Open

"Total personal crime the victimisation prevalence rate increased from 4.8% in 1998 to 5.3% in 2002." [Personal crime includes assault, robbery and sexual assault]

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/productsbyCatalogue/669C5A997EAED891CA2568A900139405/

Still don't believe me, then look at this Snopes page on Australian crime rates:

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

So, the stats really don't prove your point there :(. What do you think about that?
 
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