So the a/s restriction below the lateral limits of class B airspace is 200. Does that speed limit still apply if you take off IFR from an airport below the lateral limits of B airspace or can you fly 250 until you get above 10K?
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Airspeed Restriction Below "B"
- Thread starter Random Task
- Start date
I've never adhered to </= 200 kts in the Hornet anywhere, except the landing pattern. That being said, I'm probably one of the only guys out there who pays attention to 250 below 10k while in socal airspace....at least if I'm a singleton. I think there is a broad misconception that we have a blanket waiver everywhere to exceed that, which we don't, and I don't buy the safety card.....250 is plenty safe in a Hornet.
§ 91.117 Aircraft speed.
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(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).
(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.
(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).
(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.
Seems pretty cut-and-dry: Under Class B = <200 KIAS. Shouldn't matter how you get into the airspace, the restriction is there.
top(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).
(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.
(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).
(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.
Seems pretty cut-and-dry: Under Class B = <200 KIAS. Shouldn't matter how you get into the airspace, the restriction is there.
Unless your NATOPS manual requires a higher airspeed. I'm not climbing out at 200kts in a Rhino.
That being said, I took off from an airport below the NYC Class B in a T-45 and we executed our climb out at 200kts with no issues. We figured it was better to play it safe.
That being said, I took off from an airport below the NYC Class B in a T-45 and we executed our climb out at 200kts with no issues. We figured it was better to play it safe.
For those of us learning, if you're IFR won't you fly whatever a/s ATC assigns you (unless of course that a/s is below safe limitations)?
Another question, if ATC assigns you an a/s above 200 knots and you follow it, would you be in violation of any rules?
I'm no FAR god, but I'll give this a shot.
You can't exceed a maximum airspeed in the FARs without approval from the administrator. We are covered under an exception that allows us to use whatever minimum airspeed is required in our flight manual. It wouldn't make sense to fly below 200kts if your clean stall speed is in the vicinity of 200kts. ATC can give you 'airspeed at pilots discretion', but that isn't license to steal. You are still responsible for adhering to the FARs, regardless of what they say.
ATC doesn't assign you an airspeed on an IFR clearance. They may give you a speed restriction, or ask you to keep your speed up, but it is ultimately your responsibility to adhere to the FARs.
I think.
ATC usually manages separation with altitudes and vectors. Sometimes they request you to maintain below or above a certain airspeed for sequencing. They don't do this every day, but it's not unheard of. If it's unsafe to do so, you say "unable." Yes, the rules say if you're significantly deviating from your filed TAS, to tell ATC. I've never seen them bring this up with anyone. I'm sure it would be an issue if you created an unsafe situation.
Generally ATC will not ask you to do anything unsafe. That said, ATC controllers are like aircrew in one way: if they screw up, aircrew die or get flight violated. The PIC has ultimate responsibility for the safe operation of his/her aircraft. Remember the FAR that governs all other FARs: the one that says you can bend/break any FAR you need to in order to maintain safety of flight. But you'd better have a damn good reason for doing it, because Uncle and/or Big Navy will be very interested in talking to you about it.
Generally ATC will not ask you to do anything unsafe. That said, ATC controllers are like aircrew in one way: if they screw up, aircrew die or get flight violated. The PIC has ultimate responsibility for the safe operation of his/her aircraft. Remember the FAR that governs all other FARs: the one that says you can bend/break any FAR you need to in order to maintain safety of flight. But you'd better have a damn good reason for doing it, because Uncle and/or Big Navy will be very interested in talking to you about it.
Busted? Probably not. Reminded? Probably. My buddy was asked to slow it down coming in for a TACAN into Whiting one evening after being the RDO (< 200 in Class C). I was never asked to slow down, but I have had controllers get caught off guard when I'm almost at the FAF and still doing 200 knots, just because they don't normally see that with studs.
I know guys would be reminded every so often, but no actual tickets were issued.
Now, spinning to the IAF...that's a whole other story for another time.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
This is almost as futile as the flight suit regulations thread.
After many years of flying, I have never, EVER actually seen or heard of somebody getting violated for airspeed regardless of airspace.
Has it happened? Probably. But I'd wager there was more to the story than flying 220 under the class B.
Much like the flight suit thread, if you act reasonably and don't go out of your way to be an asshole about it, you'll be fine. Also along those lines, rules are still rules and if you intentionally exceed them, you'd better have a good story to explain it or be prepared to take your lumps for doing it.
After many years of flying, I have never, EVER actually seen or heard of somebody getting violated for airspeed regardless of airspace.
Has it happened? Probably. But I'd wager there was more to the story than flying 220 under the class B.
Much like the flight suit thread, if you act reasonably and don't go out of your way to be an asshole about it, you'll be fine. Also along those lines, rules are still rules and if you intentionally exceed them, you'd better have a good story to explain it or be prepared to take your lumps for doing it.
ryan1234
Well-Known Member
+1
I've never seen or heard of anyone getting "busted", or even a call, about speed the speed restrictions.... I have, however, seen people recently violated for many different things (i.e. turning left when they say turn right, Bravo clearance, air show stuff, etc). Usually it only involves a phone call to clear things up, but I've definitely seen people get letters on their certificate.... mostly because they didn't file a NASA form.
As an aside... Not sure if/how the whole NASA form works for Military guys, but it's a great thing for civilian pilots. If you think you've made a big mistake (i.e. airspace violation, etc), then you'll do yourself good by filing that form ASAP. They can still find you guilty, but they can't take any certificate actions against you.
It was anecdotal from the Corpus sim instructors, so take it with a grain of salt?