Yes it was August...or so said the last HAZREP endorsement I got the other day.
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Air Medals and the point system
- Thread starter ChuckMK23
- Start date
Yes it was August...or so said the last HAZREP endorsement I got the other day.
It seems to me that said Huey guy would have had 42 INDIVIDUAL Air Medals as opposed to STRIKE/FLIGHT Air Medals. Maybe they need to separate the two in order to stop having this weird dichotomy where heroic actions and routine work merit the same decoration. Maybe we need a green "combat mission ribbon" separate from the Strike/Flight Air Medal.
Then, the Air Medal can go back to being what it was originally intended to be; a Bronze Star equivalent for aviators.
Actually, he probably had 42 strike/flights. 42 for individual action would be unheard of. Vietnam-era helo pilots racked up huge numbers of s/f AMs. Most of them I would not begrudge anyone.
If you look at the history of the Bronze Star, it used to be LESS of a big deal when it was originally conceived. The BS is the ground equivalent of an AM, not the other way around. It was frequently given to every infantryman in an AO, not for individual actions. Its life as a reward for individual valor came later.
I think we typically but so much esteem in the Bronze Star because it sounds a lot like "Silver Star," which is generally a huge deal. While there are many inequities in the awards system, I don't think an excess of s/f AMs is one of them, though I think they should make the point criteria uniform.
Pops said that Air Medal points were a source of heartburn when he was flying H-34's in Veet Nam. The rules were written up for f/w and they counted points per "sortie," but what constitutes a sortie for helo guys? Since they might be taking off and landing a few dozen times per flight on a medevac run. Some guys were leaving their tour with two or three dozen AMs before they changed the rules.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
I have seen a NAM with a V. And I would hardly call it a joke. What he did to earn it was damn close to what I'd call a Bronze Star with a V - and it did look a little funny next to his Purple Heart. The reason it was a NAM? Because the Battalion Commander could award it immediately without having anyone in the chop chain.
I'll keep giggling then. The Battalion Commander should have taken the time to forward the rec for Bronze Star, I won't doubt the merits since you backed it up out of respect. Your bro got robbed?
I want the medals to mean something. Not having the administrative wherewithall to make it happen cheapens the deed and award.
I want the medals to mean something. Not having the administrative wherewithall to make it happen cheapens the deed and award.
The "V" doesn't mean valor. It is the "combat distinguishing device" meaning the award was made in conjunction with combat operations. Medals for "Valor" specifically say valor in the write-up or are defined by the criteria for the award (Silver Star and above).
I knew a Marine Corporal (member or the TR MARDET) that got a NAM with a V during Desert Storm because he did the job of a Platoon Sargent. His award was for doing an outstanding job in combat that was supposed to be done by someone 3 pay grades above him. The award had nothing to do with bravery.
I knew a Marine Corporal (member or the TR MARDET) that got a NAM with a V during Desert Storm because he did the job of a Platoon Sargent. His award was for doing an outstanding job in combat that was supposed to be done by someone 3 pay grades above him. The award had nothing to do with bravery.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
The BC did forward a BS recommendation, and it was in the process of getting kicked back because the kid was a LCpl. His attitude was "I'm gonna recognize the kid, fuck what they think!"
That right there is the biggest piece of horseshit in the giant horseshit pile that is the current awards process. Rank = awards level. I've heard of more medals getting kicked back or knocked down because of that, and it's frigging stupid.
Only slightly less stupid is the End of Cruise awards quotas. "We have two Comms, five NAMs and ten LOCs to hand out. So hand them out."
Only slightly less stupid is the End of Cruise awards quotas. "We have two Comms, five NAMs and ten LOCs to hand out. So hand them out."
OK, now that I read what I wrote, I see it sounding somewhat absurd. Note to self: drink morning coffee, THEN post on AW.
I spent quite a bit of time writing an award and all the justifications for some crew members, that went above and beyond. It went through the "joint" chain, and got downgraded, then disapproved. Just found out the other day... My aircrew did something amazing that day, and I had all the post mission reports and outside observations to document, but zip, nada from the awards system. But some douche nozzle sitting a watch floor can get a BS or JCM for showing up to stand their watch.
In Viet Nam we were awarded two points for a combat flight during which we took fire, and one point for a combat flight during which we shot, but took no return fire. Obviously, there was a wide divergence in how these points were tallied. Some guys had such good eyes that they were able to see hostile fire on every flight. After a while, I think the squadron tried to simplify things by coming up with a random formula. Twenty points were needed for a Strike/Flight Air Medal.
We were also eligible for Single Action Air Medals. These were always given with a "Combat V". This Combat V could also be awarded with Navy Commendation Medals.
We were also eligible for Single Action Air Medals. These were always given with a "Combat V". This Combat V could also be awarded with Navy Commendation Medals.
......
That is the way I remember it also. The only addition was for fast-mover types on a sortie out of country... i.e. Laos or the North. Flying a Barcap for the big grey boat was worth 2 points.
:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:
And some guys had such great eyesight that they could see "it" before they ever left the deck ...
:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:
And some guys had such great eyesight that they could see "it" before they ever left the deck ...
............
How true. A no sh*t story here.
Walking to the bird one day, flying with a LtCol from wing. The OpsO who was leading the flight came up to me and said "Lt we are going to take fire today, the Col needs 2 points for his air medal, then he won't be back to fly with us ever again".
Point taken - fire taken - two points - no more Col