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Air Farce Buddy

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Av Fan

Registered User
Im sorry about talking about talking about someones sister. It will never happen again. Please dont kick my ass "tough guy on the internet." Maybe I will just stick to moms from now on. Please accept my apologies. Hoo-rah, and all that ass slappin marine fun.
 

kevin

Registered User
avfan: actually im not sure how to "internet ass kick" someone. but i'll work on it and get back to you. "ass slappin marine fun"...?!? is there something going on in the corps i didnt hear about?

ghost: i could see your point if your talking about bvr fighting. the 15c is still purely air-air and has the sweet radar. but most people are referring to dogfighting and acm. in this area, i just dont see it. my references were also from af guys, if you go back and read. by the way, they also said when theyve done exercises with israeli af, they got their asses handed to them.
 
Seriously, nobody should be talking **** about knocking each other out of the sky.
As kev said, IAF frequently knocks the **** out of the USAF, USN, USMC in pure ACM. Why? Cuz they got that their crazy as 180 degree HUD mounted on helmet guided missiles. Yeah, ACM doesn't mean they'll win in a real war but if that's how you wanna measure "asskickingness" there's a loss for all of us right there. No pts for 2nd place, right? Hell a few years back, the Marines got their asses kicked in a 10:1 ratio in dogfighting competition against the Israelis(Btw, anybody know if it's true what they say about the IAF...that they screen kids from preschool to see who'll be hotshots on the stick?)

And ghost...I sincerely doubt the 15Cs will have a "easy time" against 18s in pure ACM. The 18 is a full generation ahead of the 15C in flight design technology. That's like putting a Mig-29 against a F-14. talk about dissimilar aircraft combat.

On a lighter note, as soon as I saw ghost's first post, I knew this topic would degenerate into immature flaming.
 

ghost_ttu

Registered User
First of all it was fun bantering, romper room threads just dissolve to this, what did you expect? As far as the 15C vs the 18 if we are talking pure ACM, then i would say it's gonna depend on the pilot. But if we are talking weapon system to weapon system, if they ever make visual, then the 15C pilot did something wrong. That plane is a radar platform and would see the 18 before he ever knew anything was near.

I'm out of this convo, I'm too old to listen to someone tell me that I'm causing immature flaming. That is not what it was, it was friendly bantering. But you keep your opinion however you may.
 

perchul

Registered User
Well I learned something new today, I had previously figured a little class was a pre-requisite for being an officer in all branches; my friend Av Fan proved showed me what little I knew about the Air Force.
 

spsiratt

24 April OCS
One more reason I'm switchin' over. You should see some of the mouth-breathers with gold bars these days in the AF. Not that I'm saying you're a mouth-breather Av Fan, just that I've been seeing some around lately. =)
 

Spin

SNA in Meridian
You could put Israeli Air Force pilots in a trash can with winges and they would STILL kick ass. Those guys are INCREADABLE!!!!!
 
ghost sorry if i offended you. I know you said what you said in good fun, that much got through even through a forum. I was referring to what Av said, which kinda popped out of nowhere.

turtle, I know the helmet doesnt do the guiding, but looks like you got my point.

but I'm curious...how do 14Ds stack up against 15Cs?
 

Av Fan

Registered User
"thats why you beat the hell out of the pansy air force pilot the night before, can't shoot you down if he can't take off"

Here is your first post Perchul. So keep running your mouth about not having clASS. You cant possibly think that if you run your mouth like that, its not going to generate some response. It like smacking someone upside the head, then when they punch you back, you tell them they are violent. Give me a break retard. Get your head out of your azz.
 

perchul

Registered User
well thats why I said a little class, I knew that I helped get this whole thing started....your comment is connotatively more classless then mine...and I need to say that in order to continue this flame we have going
 

HornetDrvr

Registered User
The 15 is an awesome BVR platform. However, one has to look at how the ROE drives the fight. You will frequently find lately that ROE dictates a Postive Hostile ID which more times than not means a visual identification. Obviously this is a lead in for the knife in the phone booth mentality. Sure, the 15C will try and take the fight two circle but a smart Hornet driver will give up that initial bite to reverse one circle and force the follow on flow to his advantage. No platform in the world can match the slow speed performance of the Hornet. A smart Eagle driver sits out in BVR land and circles around waiting for offboard sensors and other sources of information to ID the hostile if his radar cannot. He likes to avoid the BFM arena if he can.

I think that you will find a lot of Hornet and Viper drivers taking offense to the jack of all trades and master of none comment and for that matter the 15E dudes.

The 10:1 kill ratio posted by the IAF is bogus for a couple of reasons. First the IAF set up the ROE for those engagements such that they were allowed BVR shots and the Navy/Marine Corps team was not. Secondly, the Hornets and Tomcats were flying from the boat and as such were on a fuel ladder that limited the amount of time they could spend in blower. To top it off the Hornets were configured double ugly (two external fuel tanks, one on the belly and one on a wing station) which imposes an AOA limit. The IAF was launching last minute from their own airfields and were typically in slick configurations. I think you will find that the ratios are more even when the rules of the fight are more even. I take nothing away from the IAF guys but I would put a top Air Farce or Navy pointy nosed dude against them anytime in a fair fight.

Finally the disparity in missile systems has been matched and surpassed with the AIM-9X and JHMCS that is now starting to come on line.

Do I think that I can kick any Air Farce knucklehead's ass that is out there? You bet I do but I would be surprised to learn if the Air Farce knucklehead didn't think the same thing about me. Funny how you will run into Air Farce guys that have never lost a dogfight to a Navy driver and vice versa isn't it............ God Bless their tanker pilots though, I will buy them a beer anytime.
 

orthaj

Registered User
give any other service as much money as the air force and they would work themselves out of a job. even the army. We can talk about platforms and firepower all we want but it is funding which makes the birds shoot down other birds.
 
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