Adversary Squadrons

[Mayday]

I've heard rumors that the aggressor jobs are all soon to be replaced by civ contractors flying all sorts of things because it ends up being cheaper. Anybody heard similar - confirm/debunk(?).

If that's the case, might as well stay put, jp. Except that most of these contractors are all former tailhookers themselves...

 

[Coota0]

By this

flying all sorts of things

do you mean foreign things?

Either way it sounds like a dream come true after retirement

 

[wink]

I've heard rumors that the aggressor jobs are all soon to be replaced by civ contractors flying all sorts of things because it ends up being cheaper. Anybody heard similar - confirm/debunk(?).

If that's the case, might as well stay put, jp. Except that most of these contractors are all former tailhookers themselves...

The most successful company to date is ATSI located at the old Williams AFB east of Phoenix. They have over a dozen A-4s, Ns and Js, from Isreal. I have toured the operation (had a friend working there) and it is a sweat deal. Very professional. One founder is a former Blue Angel Boss who's name escapes me. Many pilots are part timers. Their wardroom is populated with only the best. Not just hot shot fleet fighter guys. They want years of instruction duty for all applicants. ATSI does lots of Red Air for Canada and some for the US. They would love to have more. Until then they do what is esentially fighter lead in training for foreign air forces like Singapor. They provide everything including emersion english.

http://www.atsifightertraining.com/

 

[wink]

Forgot to mention. They lost an A-4 and pilot a year or so ago. It was on the way back from Canadian Air Base Cold Lake. Crashed in the Great Salt Lake. The pilot ejected and the seat malfunctioned.

 

[Blutonski816]

IMO, Vegas sucks. Always has, always will .... tinsel-town, Desert version.

One of many secondary reasons that I'll be glad to get out of here...

 

[Physicx]

How many days does a fighter pilot in the reserves have to fly to maintain currency.And anybody know if its true that adversary squadrons are going to go away?

 

[A4sForever]

........My Adversary experience was to plan on giving the squadron about 4-10 days a month. More on the "10" side than the "4" side as a general rule ... plus lots of special active duty over the course of the year. Navy and Natops flight currency rules are the same as for active duty. As the training mission is DACT, it's sometimes tough to meet the night flight requirement(s) without some dedicated night hops.

Are they going away??? Everything is, ultimately. You just never know when --- but since they're the Reserve, chances are they will stay as long as there is a mission. I hate to sound like a broken, cynical, record ... but I've seen how it works for over 35 years. It's all about politics and money. If it wasn't -- we'd still have that "almost" 600-ship fleet of Regan's. Of course, you have to have a mission to train towards .... there's not too many potential aerial adversaries in the Middle East. But how 'bout -- them ChiComs .. huh ???

 

[Brett327]

NSAWC/TG essentially maintains some semblance of an adversary force, although there is some kind of reserve component there as well. I was in water survival today with a Navy hornet guy who also flies their F-16 out at NFL.

Brett

 

[A4sForever]

I'm not sure about this .... and someone help me out if I am in error; but I don't think it's legal to let an NFO have the last post on a thread about Adversary Squadrons .... .. violation of UCMJ or something like that.

 

[vt9Jack]

But its not all fun and games for the Hunters. They were recalled to active duty and sent on cruise with CVW-8 for OIF. Their "JO's" were O-4s with over 1500-2000 hours. They had guys who hadn't trapped in over 12 years. Ready Room NVG foosball was a great idea though.

And Fallon still sucks. I'm here for AirWing Fallon now. VFC-13 is alive and well here. They fly F-5s almost exclusively. TG has F-16s and F-18s. The last adversay tomcats went away some time ago.

 

[Physicx]

What about Reno/Tahoe is it very nice?

 

[TurnandBurn55]

Will there be adversary Super Bugs in the foreseeable future? If so, any slots for backseaters in the adversary squadrons...

And hey now... let's get some pictures of Slider and Wolfman up also!!

 

[Grant]

OK, new question... what kind of transition training goes on for the pilots that go to fly for VFC-12 and/or NSAWC? Is it a long process, or is it a short familiarization thing, where they figure if you know how to fly a Hornet, that it wont take much for you to figure out a F-5 or F-16?

The reason I ask, is because a while back I saw a special on either the History Channel or Discovery, where a new pilot with the AF's Thunderbirds was joining the team. He was a F-15 guy, and showed him getting into a F-16 for the very first time ever, and it was one of the Thunderbirds F-16's. He made it home safely, so apparently he figured it out.

 

[Blutonski816]

Will there be adversary Super Bugs in the foreseeable future? If so, any slots for backseaters in the adversary squadrons...

I dunno, if Uncle Sam wants to spend the money to shave off all the extra fat off one of those to turn it into something that'll be useful in DACT, I guess it will. I doubt it though...
IMO, I'd think it smarter to retrofit the Legacy hornets with the F414...

Then again, the F-14 DID find its way into an adversary job at NSAWC...

 

[A4sForever]

... what kind of transition training goes on for the pilots that go to fly for VFC-12 and/or NSAWC? Is it a long processor is it a short familiarization thing, where they figure if you know how to fly a Hornet, that it wont take much for you to figure out a F-5 or F-16?

Short answer: Long transition.

Being an Adversary Pilot is a totally different mindset than being a "Fleet Pilot". The object of the exercise is not to "beat-up" on the Fleet, but rather to instruct our Fleet squadron Aviators/NFO's and prepare them for armed encounters against foreign airborne adversaries. When I flew Adversary, it took about 6-10 months to fully qualify to lead a multi-plane flight/fight. We (Adversaries) used to brief/debrief the mission objectives and lessons-learned; not the squadron guys. To oversimplify --- "they" were the "students", "we" were the instructors ... it never ends, does it???

Adversary squadrons are a little more formalized today re: the classifications. What a suprise .... the four "levels" can take up to a year to acquire and are listed here. Keep in mind that these are some of the best Aviators in the Fleet --- it still takes a siginificant amount of time to qualify.

Quick & Dirty qualification overview:

1. Level 1 adversary is a 'bandit' wingman and plays the role of a "lesser country" threat pilot. A "beginner who can still "sting ya" ... "Check Six" ... always.

2. Level 2 Bandit adversary represents a threat country that is able to lead two airplanes into aerial combat. I.e., Middle East ..... ??

3. Level 3 Bandit is an adversary division leader of a four-plane group of Red Air fighters. They are to represent a competent, all-aspect aerial adversary -- watch out !!!

4. Level 4 Bandit is a mean mutha' -- BEWARE -- this Bandit leads large force exercises, i.e. Red Flag, blah, blah, etc.