Should I stay or should I go? Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying And Love HSC.

[Pags]

Well...I’m no Chester Nimitz, but I’ve never heard of a fight where someone said “We brought too many guns!” If we end up fighting a war against people who build islands out of dredged up sand don’t most of you imagine there will be plenty of “niche” shooting to do?

You're better off using the deck space for F-35s.

 

[loadtoad]

Is there an official process for this now? There was no NAWDC debrief or post-exchange interview after my time w the Air Force was done. Not saying I could’ve revamped Navy CSAR with all the knowledge I gained, but I highly doubt anything i learned ever trickled over to the Fallon brain trust.

If the Navy really valued these types of assignments and any real lessons learned, these would be career-enhancing assignments - not what’s given out after the instructor nomination board as a consolation prize to everybody that’s left needing shore duty orders.

Nope there is nothing official other than the standard publication update process and attending conferences like reblue, NHA, etc. Between the NATOPS, MDG, and SWM there is a lot of low hanging fruit to push change on.

I think the biggest difference is not being a second tour pilot and having a bigger rolodex to utilize as well as a better understanding how NAE works. If a pilot goes into this exchange working for the community and remains engaged with NAWDC rather than disappearing for 2-3 years it has a much bigger impact. As you guys know, typically the community has been its own worst enemy in how it treats it's people or how it views the exchange so people are not empowered or reminded to push for change...

 

[ChuckMK23]

OK so what was the intended use of the M197 - what requirement does it fulfill

and

Where do the guns sit organizationally? Squadron? Wing? Where is the equipment stored ?

Is there a M197 for every aircraft in the squadron?

 

[nittany03]

This picture is very HSC - squadron didn’t have the gun yet, had no idea how to use it, but wanted to look cool in a photo op. That’s how you end up with a gun on the wrong side of the aircraft.

 

[loadtoad]

OK so what was the intended use of the M197 - what requirement does it fulfill

and

Where do the guns sit organizationally? Squadron? Wing? Where is the equipment stored ?

Is there a M197 for every aircraft in the squadron?

RWT against FIAC.

Squadron.

No clue. But I don't think so.

 

[Pags]

RWT against FIAC.

Squadron.

No clue. But I don't think so.

RWT? Rotary Wing...tacos? Tanzanite?

 

[IKE]

RWT? Rotary Wing...tacos? Tanzanite?

Restricted waters transit.

Acronyms change every few years. SSC is now MISR (or ASR if you've got a few hellfires).

 

[wink]

Restricted waters transit.

Acronyms change every few years. SSC is now MISR (or ASR if you've got a few hellfires).

?

 

[Sonog]

That's generally true but there are better ways to spend money on weapons systems for the -60. Without a good sighting system and stuck on the stub wing of a helicopter like that, that gun kinda sprays, like trying to accurately shoot an AK-47 from the hip. The volume of fire is certainly one of the positives (I'm not being sarcastic by saying this).

(And not that I think the navalized Hellfire would be that much more accurate in real world engagements against a swarm of small boats... just my opinion.)

Can't speak to HDTS, but at night, IZLID + LTM made it pretty damn accurate.

 

[Gatordev]

Can't speak to HDTS, but at night, IZLID + LTM made it pretty damn accurate.

I've never seen the thing in action...how did that work? Was the IZLID attached to the M197, and therefor boresighted, like on a crew-served weapon? That seems like a deceptively simple setup that could pretty effective, assuming the system actually had an attachment point.

 

[SynixMan]

I've never seen the thing in action...how did that work? Was the IZLID attached to the M197, and therefor boresighted, like on a crew-served weapon? That seems like a deceptively simple setup that could pretty effective, assuming the system actually had an attachment point.

The IZLID is on the gun and boresighted along with the gun. Basically a dot of death at night. The gun itself has a small cant inward (adjustable) to be centerline at X yards, similar to WWII fighters. It's been a while, but I think first detent was IZLID and second detent fired. In general, the M197 is a niche weapon for a niche problem.

 

[Gatordev]

Neat. Hadn't heard that part. Although not great in an environment that can counter-detect, so again, maybe not the answer in the dredged up littorals.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Speaking of CSAR - this looks excellent:

https://www.amazon.com/Unforgotten-...&keywords=9781640121911&qid=1585853862&sr=8-1

On November 18, 1965, U.S. Navy pilot Willie Sharp ejected from his F-8 fighter after being hit while positioned over a target in North Vietnam. With a cloud layer beneath him, he did not know if he was over land—where he would most certainly be captured or killed by the North Vietnamese—or over the Gulf of Tonkin. As he ejected, both navy and air force aircraft were already heading toward him to help.

What followed was a dramatic rescue made by pilots and other airmen with little or no training or experience in combat search-and-rescue. Told by former military flight test engineer Eileen A. Bjorkman, this story includes nail-biting descriptions of air combat, flight, and rescue. Bjorkman places Sharp’s story in the larger context of the U.S. military’s bedrock credo—No Man Left Behind—and calls attention to the more than eighty thousand Americans still missing from conflicts since World War I. She also explores the devastating aftershocks of the Vietnam War as Sharp struggled with post-traumatic stress disorder.

 

[Hair Warrior]

^ That does look awesome. I also think they should make a movie about "Tilt" John Stryker Meyer, including his CSAR story.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Ah, Feb 2018 Russian AF in Syria lost Frogfoot and its pilot, Maj Phillipov, former Ukranian AF officer who joined Russian AF after Crimean Anshluss, ejected safely but been KIA before any CSAR efforts had been ever made. That aircraft fired rockets by CAS request from evidently Russian FAC on the land and evidently didn't await any AA enroute but some ISIS MANPADS crew was on its place. Short close combat resulted in that this guy, empty with ammo after several minutes, blown himself and a couple of insurgents up with a hand grenade.

Dunno who's wrong and who's right there, but that case is a manifestation: no matter how good the CSAR assets in area are, they would simply be out of time to react since there can be less than a minute between ejection of a Sandy pilot and his firearms contact on the land.

I.e. CSAR as such unfolds beyond purely aerial CSAR, something has to be done by land forces already there. So, there should be some land forces everywhere, in one or another kind.