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СН-46 in SEALs training

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Oh boy, lemme get a beer first. There we were off Horn of Africa, Fall of 2002. Launched off the NASSAU on an FCF flight after a full flight controls profile. Not 5 minutes into it, we were 300’ and 70kts when we heard a loud pop in the back, the whole bird shaking. My crew chief yelled “what the fuck was that?!” and the nose pitched up PAST 45 degrees. Dave in the left seat was at the controls (I was in the FCF checklist) and he pushed the cyclic all the way forward to the stops with no effect. I looked over my right shoulder at the ocean rushing at my face. I took the controls and (counterintuitively) lowered the collective to the bottom stop. That allowed the nose to drop enough so that our aft rotor did not chop into the water. We bounced in ground effect at 20 feet and zero knots. Bird was a bucking bronco and I settled into a hover about 10 degrees nose high. Very uncomfortable. I asked Dave to take the radios and ask Boss for a green deck. Dave was so cool on the radio that Boss had no idea we were in serious trouble. He tried to spin us around a couple of turns so he could clear the Harriers back aft. I said, “No way, Boss, we need to land now.” With an armful of collective and a lot of forward cyclic, I could only make about 35 knots the whole 5 miles back to the boat. Straight-in to spot 7, no hover landing. Shut down, unstrapped, and kissed the flight deck. The 4 of us hugged each other on the flight deck for a minute. Found out shortly thereafter that the drive arm link on the aft rotor system came apart because of a missing bolt and cotter pin post FCF. The aft rotor went to flat pitch which resulted in the uncommanded nose up. If Dave had raised the collective to add power, we probably would have flipped backwards and fed the fishes.
Yikes! In 1985 I was with 2nd Recon at Onslow Beach, Camp Lejeune. We were out on the beach watching the BLT from 3/4 roll in during some exercise. Not 1000 yards off the beach a -46 pitched up, seemed to cut itself in half, and plunged into the Atlantic. Some guys put rubber boats out and raced to the crash site. The water was pretty shallow and a few people were saved, but I think 15 or 20 guys died that day. I wonder if it was a similar issue?
 

Sam I am

Average looking, not a farmer.
pilot
Contributor
Oh boy, lemme get a beer first. There we were off Horn of Africa, Fall of 2002. Launched off the NASSAU on an FCF flight after a full flight controls profile. Not 5 minutes into it, we were 300’ and 70kts when we heard a loud pop in the back, the whole bird shaking. My crew chief yelled “what the fuck was that?!” and the nose pitched up PAST 45 degrees. Dave in the left seat was at the controls (I was in the FCF checklist) and he pushed the cyclic all the way forward to the stops with no effect. I looked over my right shoulder at the ocean rushing at my face. I took the controls and (counterintuitively) lowered the collective to the bottom stop. That allowed the nose to drop enough so that our aft rotor did not chop into the water. We bounced in ground effect at 20 feet and zero knots. Bird was a bucking bronco and I settled into a hover about 10 degrees nose high. Very uncomfortable. I asked Dave to take the radios and ask Boss for a green deck. Dave was so cool on the radio that Boss had no idea we were in serious trouble. He tried to spin us around a couple of turns so he could clear the Harriers back aft. I said, “No way, Boss, we need to land now.” With an armful of collective and a lot of forward cyclic, I could only make about 35 knots the whole 5 miles back to the boat. Straight-in to spot 7, no hover landing. Shut down, unstrapped, and kissed the flight deck. The 4 of us hugged each other on the flight deck for a minute. Found out shortly thereafter that the drive arm link on the aft rotor system came apart because of a missing bolt and cotter pin post FCF. The aft rotor went to flat pitch which resulted in the uncommanded nose up. If Dave had raised the collective to add power, we probably would have flipped backwards and fed the fishes.

This is the second aft drive link story I've heard. I was a brand new check in and got sent on a work up on board a Gator (Iwo Jima) I think...man my memory is fading). I walked aboard before the ship left and the other guys flew the birds out. Anyway, one them had the same failure...they were fortunate that they almost there, lined up on the ship. Same thing: no hover landing to the last spot...more of a controlled crash and they weren't as cool on the radio because everyone knew serios shit was happening. Anyway, after they land, the OIC turns and looks at me and says, "Sam...you're going to 6 O'clocks tonight...okay." Me (Ensign Sam I am): "Okey-Dokey, Boss." So off I go, wide eyed and bushy tailed smiling the whole time...you know...just happy to be here and proud to serve. The XO of the ship is an old F-14 driver, he's cruising through the various departments and finally gets to me: "Sar Det?" Me with my best smile and winning attitude: "Nothing to report, Sir." The dude lost his shit. I don't remember much of it except for the first part: "You crash an aircraft on my ship and you have nothing to report?!?!?!?" Middle part: "Loud angry words." Last part, "I want your OIC in my stateroom at 2100 sharp!!!!!!" That was an ass chewing of epic proportions.

Pretty sure the aircrew of that bird got Air Medals.
 

AllAmerican75

FUBIJAR
None
Contributor
CHT pumps. VCHT sucks.

You're not wrong. But the FFG had old school, salt water flush, so our CHT issues were more related to the ship being nearly 40 years old and worn out. Hell, we were missing 1 of our 4 potable water tanks due to open communication from the sea (i.e. there was a big ass hole) and our single working reverse osmosis machine was held together with bubble gum and duct tape.
 

Max the Mad Russian

Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Oh BTW further in McRaven's book the praise for AH-6s of 160th is very strong, namely in 2009 Baraawe raid. Perfect co-ordination with SEALs and CIA. Hope author has full clearance to show the details of that special op but the type of aircraft tried to fire AGM-176 Griffin missile and failed in that. Wiki states that was USMC AV-8B but it seems that A-29B Super Tucano was in use in old good Skyraider fashion. No matter, back to 160th: is the exchange tour to this Regiment possible for Navy/Marine RW pilots? If so, where in the Navy/Corps the exchange CWOs from Army conduct their tours?
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Oh BTW further in McRaven's book the praise for AH-6s of 160th is very strong, namely in 2009 Baraawe raid. Perfect co-ordination with SEALs and CIA. Hope author has full clearance to show the details of that special op but the type of aircraft tried to fire AGM-176 Griffin missile and failed in that. Wiki states that was USMC AV-8B but it seems that A-29B Super Tucano was in use in old good Skyraider fashion. No matter, back to 160th: is the exchange tour to this Regiment possible for Navy/Marine RW pilots? If so, where in the Navy/Corps the exchange CWOs from Army conduct their tours?

There are USMC exchange pilots with 160th and with USAF AFSOC (CV-22 and HH-60G)
 

Max the Mad Russian

Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Yours truly flying Dash 2 1991 post Desert Storm - qualification drill to do daytime VBSS.
Cool! Thanks. 14 sailors fast-roped within 20 seconds is really pretty cool. Are about half of them SEALs or Coastie LEDET guys? And how hard work it is to keep the Phrog broadside across the ship's course in the superstructure's shadow if the seizured ship goes right in the wind?

Thats the old USS America in the background - fossil fuel goodness!

BTW, saw her in 1990 in Med, about June. Why she had been written off so early in career?
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Cool! Thanks. 14 sailors fast-roped within 20 seconds is really pretty cool. Are about half of them SEALs or Coastie LEDET guys? And how hard work it is to keep the Phrog broadside across the ship's course in the superstructure's shadow if the seizured ship goes right in the wind?
Indeed - ST 8 and USCG dudes - who were billeted incognito aboard the USNS Joshua Humphreys - nothing to do with opsec - but rather these guys were living large aboard a USNS ship with civ mariners - private staterooms for all, food and entertainment that exceeded any USS vessel. A great deal for them - Wake up, PT, eat, shoot guns, clean guns, get a couple of helos to fly them to some broken down unsuspecting Philippine flagged merchant ship full of cattle, go back to USNS, and retire to steaks and beer. Rinse. Repeat.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Thanks. Then to would be quite possible to have in one helo an exchange Marine O-3 as co-pilot and Army CW3 as a plane commander, right?
There is some NHA Symposium video floating around of a Marine recounting his experience with Army 160th dudes during an exchange tour...
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
how hard work it is to keep the Phrog broadside across the ship's course in the superstructure's shadow if the seizured ship goes right in the wind?

Tandem rotor helicopters are especially forgiving in crosswinds - the H-46 had a fairly advanced digital AFCS for its time that provided excellent stability while allowing the pilot to fly dynamically. What we did not understand as well at the time were the stress loads imposed by flying decades well beyond their intended flight envelope with components that were endlessly overhauled beyond what should have been normal service life. The Marines got serious about their H-46 fleet and adopted measures similar to the Army's CH-47 fleet - while the Navy took the cheap route, killing crews in the process.
 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
The Marines got serious about their H-46 fleet and adopted measures similar to the Army's CH-47 fleet - while the Navy took the cheap route, killing crews in the process.
Should there be some sort of joint program office (JPO) for aviation maintenance and safety that takes these decisions out of the hands of each service branch to centralize, balance, and standardize across all branches?
 
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