Racism in the Military

[Treetop Flyer]

Disclaimer: The following opinion reflects the issue with racism in the US, not in the US Navy

But @squorch2 is right though. It doesn't matter if people here claim it's liberal "wokeness", it's literally advocating ignorance. People in this thread are so blinded by their insistence that there is no problem, or that they're NOT a part of the problem that they won't even entertain the idea of broadening their world-view, which is in turn enabling the continuance of systemic racism in the United States.

The book I mentioned earlier, White Fragility (which is on one of the lists squorch posted btw), would literally explain to and help you (the royal you) understand why people in this thread are saying the things they are. Pretty much every excuse I've read in this thread is brought up in that book.

It's time to stop burying our heads in the mud; education is not a dirty word.

Having a different viewpoint isn’t ignorance. Advocating that dissent is ignorance is arrogance.

 

[Gonzo08]

I generally agree with you, but this particular author goes too far and I can't get on board.

According to this author, "we can say that nice, white people who really aren’t doing anything other than being nice people are racist. We are complicit with that system. There is no neutral place. ". This starts to sound like totalitarianism.

According to this author, "Racism is what happens when you back one group's racial bias with legal authority and institutional control. ... When you back one group's collective bias with that kind of power, it is transformed into a far-reaching system. It becomes the default. It's automatic. It's not dependent on your agreement or belief or approval. "

This is where they lose me. You don't get to call me a racist because of the actions or beliefs of others. If someone in a position of power makes decisions based on their biases, that doesn't reflect on me. If someone wants to point out things that i've done or things that i've said that reflect my biases, even unconscious bias, then fine let's have that discussion. And it's a good idea for everyone to really think about their own biases, especially unconscious ones. But you don't get to assume that i'm a racist because of the color of my skin, then make me have to somehow prove a negative.

According to this author, I'm a racist if I'm "not doing anything". By that logic, I need to be doing something to be considered not racist, but what? Is going to a protest enough? Making a donation to BLM? Post a woke message on twitter? Who do I take my reading list to, to verify that I've read all the suggested readings and videos? Who checks my papers and verifies my credentials?

I'm told that if I don't support BLM then I'm a racist. But I looked a the BLM website today, and a major plank of their platform is the demand to defund police nationwide. So, if I don't support a nationwide defunding of the police then I'm racist?

We seem to have very quickly gone from "we have a serious problem with law enforcement, and blacks are all to often treated unfairly by police, sometimes resulting in their deaths" to "all whites are racist"

I suppose that's why there has been a push for "Anti-racism". You don't have to donate, or openly support, or carry a card proving you've read books; just be ever conscious of racism's prevalence and openly stand up against racism when/if you see it rather than denying its existence or claiming the US is "post-racial".

 

[nodropinufaka]

Having a different viewpoint isn’t ignorance. Advocating that dissent is ignorance is arrogance.

If your different viewpoint is racist then yes, it is ignorance. Or worst.

You don’t get to claim that it’s your viewpoint and others are intolerant if your viewpoint is morally wrong.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

If your different viewpoint is racist then yes, it is ignorance. Or worst.

You don’t get to claim that it’s your viewpoint and others are intolerant if your viewpoint is morally wrong.

Good thing my viewpoint isn’t racist.

 

[Pags]

Frankly, I have no idea where the lines are drawn between the definitions.
-racist: a person who hates someone who has a different skin color
-systematic racism: the system is actively working against people of a certain race
-systemic racism: ??? Seems to be somewhere between systematic racism and "although the system isn't actively working against people of a certain color and the people who run the system are mostly not actively racist those people are still mostly white and therefore the system can't help but produce unfair and possibly racist results." If it's the latter is there a way to fix it?
-anti racist: actively discourages racists? Does being anti-racist solve systemic racism?

 

[Hair Warrior]

-racist: a person who hates someone who has a different skin color

I don't think this is the definition anymore, as we're seeing it applied in the public discourse...

 

[Pags]

I don't think this is the definition anymore, as we're seeing it applied in the public discourse...

So what do you think is the current definition?

 

[HAL Pilot]

If your different viewpoint is racist then yes, it is ignorance. Or worst.

You don’t get to claim that it’s your viewpoint and others are intolerant if your viewpoint is morally wrong.

And you don’t get to claim that the viewpoint of someone you don’t know is morally wrong. Which seems to be the “woke” assumption - that every white person is racist whether they want to admit it or not.

That seems the “woke” are just as intolerant in their perception of others.

 

[johnboyA6E]

I don't think this is the definition anymore, as we're seeing it applied in the public discourse...

I think that is part of our problem here. We've had a definition of racism and racist for a long time, and now we have an evolving, different definition.

Websters Definition of racism

1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2a: a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles
b: a political or social system founded on racism
3: racial prejudice or discrimination

Now, it appears that according to some/many people, you are still racist even if you don't believe in (a) above, you don't subscribe to or support any system that would be included in (b) and you don't practice discrimination or exhibit prejudice as in (c).

This becomes a problem because calling someone a racist is one if the worst things you can call someone. Naturally, people will get very offended and defensive if you call them a racist if they are still operating under the classic definition of term.

If the goal is to encourage white people to think more deeply about racism, think about biases, and think more actively about seeing racist things that they might not otherwise recognize (which are all very worthwhile things) and to encourage people to find ways to take some sort of action against racism, then calling them all racists is not the most productive way to get them engaged.


BTW - i just came across an article that said Websters is in the process of editing the published definition

 

[nodropinufaka]

And you don’t get to claim that the viewpoint of someone you don’t know is morally wrong. Which seems to be the “woke” assumption - that every white person is racist whether they want to admit it or not.

That seems the “woke” are just as intolerant in their perception of others.

If I don’t know someone and they say some racist stuff. I def get to tell them they’re wrong and it’s not okay.

that is what I’m saying.

 

[HAL Pilot]

U.S. Embassy In South Korea Removes Its Black Lives Matter Banner

According to multiple news reports, the banner was taken down after President Trump and senior State Department officials expressed displeasure with it.

www.npr.org

It should have never been put up. BLM is a political organization with an agenda that reaches far beyond ending racism and embassies have no business promoting political organizations.

Discrimination/racism in all areas of society needs to end and there is no doubt blacks face it in many things. But read the BLM policy statements:

1. Reparations
2. Defunding Police, release from jail
3. Changes to the immigration system
4. Free college
5. Changes to the local, state and national political systems
6. Free health care
7. Guaranteed income
8. Full control of all public and government institutions in communities

Again racism is wrong. Demonstrations against what happened are perfectly legitimate, acceptable and should be occurring. A statement or even a banner by the embassy that they support the end of discrimination/racism is both appropriate and desirable. But the Black Lives Matter is a political organization. Their name is being used as an anti-discrimination against blacks catch phrase when in reality there is more to the name.
.

 

[HAL Pilot]

If I don’t know someone and they say some racist stuff. I def get to tell them they’re wrong and it’s not okay.

that is what I’m saying.

That I will agree with.

But I won’t agree the woke concepts of racist like a white person not liking what Obama did as President is racist and must be because he was black.

Or that my post about BLM above and the embassy is racist which I’m sure will be said shortly by some in this thread n

 

[Hair Warrior]

So what do you think is the current definition?

I don’t have an answer for you. I didn’t intend my reply to be a “gotcha” remark. I genuinely think there are multiple definitions in people’s understanding out there, and that those definitions are evolving in ways that we can’t wrap our arms around yet.

 

[nodropinufaka]

It should have never been put up. BLM is a political organization with an agenda that reaches far beyond ending racism and embassies have no business promoting political organizations.

Discrimination/racism in all areas of society needs to end and there is no doubt blacks face it in many things. But read the BLM policy statements:

1. Reparations
2. Defunding Police, release from jail
3. Changes to the immigration system
4. Free college
5. Changes to the local, state and national political systems
6. Free health care
7. Guaranteed income
8. Full control of all public and government institutions in communities

Again racism is wrong. Demonstrations against what happened are perfectly legitimate, acceptable and should be occurring. A statement or even a banner by the embassy that they support the end of discrimination/racism is both appropriate and desirable. But the Black Lives Matter is a political organization. Their name is being used as an anti-discrimination against blacks catch phrase when in reality there is more to the name.
.

I think it’s kind of unfortunate that an org named itself that as well.

because a lot of people will agree with the sentiment that “Black Lives Matter” and that they face a higher level of police violence then others.

but an org took the name and now loses a lot of its support.

 

[Gonzo08]

But I won’t agree the woke concepts of racist like a white person not liking what Obama did as President is racist and must be because he was black.

I don't think anyone on this site is advocating that; and that, to me, seems clearly like a political disagreement.