Not even team guys are immune from having to crank I guess.
-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
USN Another call to "bring back S-3's" (Vikings are Zombies)
- Thread starter ChuckMK23
- Start date
S-3 was great. Had them in the CVW for a couple of my deployments. It’d be great to have extended their capabilities to the life of the airframe.
Hendrix is not great. He conflates the (self-given) titles of ‘expert’ and ‘commentator’. If you’re interested (not that anyone should be) watch his twitter. He matches whatever the current dod or administration talking points are. Recent China-alarmist posts right after the acting Sec Def mentioned ‘focus on China’ are one recent exmple. He’s done this for nearly a decade. Maybe he’s hoping for some sort of appointment. Absolutely wouldn’t want him setting policy or acquisition decisions.
Word is that he was being considered as Pence's National Security Advisor. Not sure how far along he got in that process, but he is spectacularly unqualified for anything of the sort.
Many years ago I attended a War College symposium in San Diego. During a break one of the professors was speaking with someone about a Hendrix position and the professor said "I served with Jerry as a JO. His ideas all these years later are as bad as they were when he was a JG."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa-class_battleship
^ apparently they were not in service from 1958-68 and again 1969-82
^ apparently they were not in service from 1958-68 and again 1969-82
Yeah, most people who have commented about them in this thread are pretty familiar with their service history. As I've mentioned before in other threads a guy in my unit served on one in the late 80's, he said that while it was the most awesome tour he ever had he also repeatedly emphasized about how they were in very poor material condition and couldn't realistically go on serving much longer.
GroundPounder
Well-Known Member
Just curious, does that mean that it would take a metric ton of money to get them right, or basically they were so worn out and/or with obsolete innards that you'd be better off starting from scratch if you wanted that capability?
My outsider guess would be that at some point a ship, no matter how well you maintain it is just done at some point. Even the one someone is getting ready to post to prove me wrong.
It's no different than trying to nurse along an old beater car. At some point, it's just not economical and it becomes a very inefficient use of resources to keep it running. Constitution (or Midway) are bad analogies because they don't have to operate. They just sit there for the most part.
Constitution is a "living museum" at best. Except for her annual 'turnaround' trip out into Boston Harbor, she just stays tied to the pier and needs to do nothing more strenuous than look good for the public. Even then, she needs constant repair and spells in dry dock.
Working ships and aircraft get worked hard. There's a big difference between being preserved and being ready to work. At this point trying to bring back the S-3s would be sort of like leaving your lawnmower outside in all weather for ten years, with no more maintenance than an annual coat of Rustoleum, and then expecting to get it up and running for a lawn care service.
Working ships and aircraft get worked hard. There's a big difference between being preserved and being ready to work. At this point trying to bring back the S-3s would be sort of like leaving your lawnmower outside in all weather for ten years, with no more maintenance than an annual coat of Rustoleum, and then expecting to get it up and running for a lawn care service.
Constitution is a "living museum" at best. Except for her annual 'turnaround' trip out into Boston Harbor, she just stays tied to the pier and needs to do nothing more strenuous than look good for the public. Even then, she needs constant repair and spells in dry dock.
Working ships and aircraft get worked hard. There's a big difference between being preserved and being ready to work. At this point trying to bring back the S-3s would be sort of like leaving your lawnmower outside in all weather for ten years, with no more maintenance than an annual coat of Rustoleum, and then expecting to get it up and running for a lawn care service.
I’ll disagree a little here. The entire purpose of the Davis Monthan bone yard is to preserve aircraft. They have pulled aircraft that have been pickled for 10 or so years and put them back on active service. Every time an active B-52 gets busted beyond repair the AF guys pull a zombie 52 and put her to work. Sure, I doubt we need the S-3s, but assuming they were stored right, they could be returned to flight status with some ease.
It's one thing to pull a airframe of a TMS that's still active with an existing support structure and it's another thing to pull an airframe that hasnt been actively in service for a decade.
This. My short bulleted list of follow-on questions:
- Who is doing the I-level maintenance, and how much will it cost to qualify enough people to maintain S-3s?
- Who is doing the D-level maintenance, and how much will it cost to qualify enough people to maintain S-3s?
- What S-3 skillset still exists in the O-level maintainers we have, and how much of it can be trained? And how much does Big Navy need to re-learn because the corporate knowledge is flat-out gone?
- Who is going to rewrite the TACMEMO and other pubs to decide how the S-3 fits into the air wing, and how do you make sure they know what the hell they're talking about?
- Who is going to man the FRS and weapons school? Are there any Level V-quality S-3 bubbas left, or has our seed corn rotted? If the latter, who is going to train new Hoov aircrew to employ their jet? Do we need to talk to CNRFC about bringing former S-3 SELRES back temporarily? Is that even feasible? Involuntary MOBs with no nexus to OCO fall under 12304(b) authorities and need to be POMed. So congrats, you're officially two years behind the power curve unless people are willing to volunteer.
- Where are they going to be based? Are Jax and NASNI valid options, or has life moved on? How many squadrons do we need, and how much ramp space/hangar space do they take up?
- What GSE requirements are there, and how do you fill that without robbing Peter to pay Paul? What other IMRL gear is necessary to maintain S-3s, and where do you find it? Has the Navy junked it all already or not?
- For that matter, TACMEMO aside, how do they integrate into a modern CV? Where is their ready room going to be? Do the boats have enough spaces to absorb the O-level MX shops for a completely separate T/M/S? How do you man CV AIMD to support another non-Hornet/Hawkeye/Seahawk airframe? As a Prowler guy, I remember my ADs working port and starboard to rebuild a FODed motor because AIMD apparently didn't have any J-52 people.
- How will boards view people who get transitioned (or re-transitioned back) into the VS community, and how do you massage that to keep it a going concern?
What would it take to bring back the Viking as an optionally manned KS-3 aerial tanker?
Less work than bringing the MQ-25 to Fleet Ops.