T45 status

[zippy]

I saw that happen with the Marines when I showed up to Meridian. You need to want to be there to tolerate that syllabus. Or at least you did before the Four Horsemen got muzzled.

I know of one guy who DORed because he liked flying but hated aero, being upside down, being in a cramped cockpit, and so on. He picked KC-130s, got forced to go jets, and said "fuck it." What a waste of money.

Honestly, the same way I feel about guys who DOR if they don't get jets, I say the same about this guy. Fuck him. If he can't shut up and color in Jets, he can hit the bricks.

It's easy to criticize someone's choice without knowing the full story or being in their shoes... Those are specific reasons that possibly have some physiological issues driving them instead of him being a stereotypical child attitude from someone who was jaded he didn't get what he wanted. Sounds like the guy knew he'd be miserable every day for the next 10 years of his life every time he flew... more power to him for avoiding that, cutting the military's losses, and not becoming a safety hazard to his squadron mates.

I had an onwing once who was a naturally gifted pilot.

Fast forward a year, he's in kingsville and we're having at one point, discussions several times a week about how much he's fucking miserable and wants to DOR and dreads going flying... why? He got airsickness... every flight... Turns out that besides the few active airsickness episodes he had in primary, he was passively airsick 60% of the flights in the program but sucked it up and flew because he didn't want to get attrited. He gets to T45s, and he's actively airsick, and puking every single flight. Adaptation flights were'nt helping, spin chair wasn't helping, and every flight after BIs he'd be sick...

Would a DOR in that case been a waste of money? Should he have just shut up and color?

 

[zippy]

Absolutely true although on airlinepilotforums, I've been seeing more and more guys hired non-current, although those dudes seem to be more 20 year O-5 retirees coming off of staff, not O-3 dissociated guys.

The majors still seem to care.

Regionals- for military guys, no currency = no problem. My company has a military transition program where they'll invest $$$ (I think $20k) to get a military member the ratings/flight currency/ hours they need to get them into training as a First Officer.

MPRA, TACAMO, Helo, UAV draftees and those boned with non-flying tours prior to exit from the military no longer have to worry. They can start with their new company while on terminal leave to minimize the gaps in paychecks.

 

[BACONATOR]

It's easy to criticize someone's choice without knowing the full story or being in their shoes... Those are specific reasons that possibly have some physiological issues driving them instead of him being a stereotypical child attitude from someone who was jaded he didn't get what he wanted. Sounds like the guy knew he'd be miserable every day for the next 10 years of his life every time he flew... more power to him for avoiding that, cutting the military's losses, and not becoming a safety hazard to his squadron mates.

I had an onwing once who was a naturally gifted pilot.

Fast forward a year, he's in kingsville and we're having at one point, discussions several times a week about how much he's fucking miserable and wants to DOR and dreads going flying... why? He got airsickness... every flight... Turns out that besides the few active airsickness episodes he had in primary, he was passively airsick 60% of the flights in the program but sucked it up and flew because he didn't want to get attrited. He gets to T45s, and he's actively airsick, and puking every single flight. Adaptation flights were'nt helping, spin chair wasn't helping, and every flight after BIs he'd be sick...

Would a DOR in that case been a waste of money? Should he have just shut up and color?

Your situation is almost completely apples to oranges. I am describing a whiny dude who didn't get what he wanted. A guy with a medical issue like airsickness needs medical treatment. A guy with an attitude problem and lack of sense of service needs an attrition treatment.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Absolutely true although on airlinepilotforums, I've been seeing more and more guys hired non-current, although those dudes seem to be more 20 year O-5 retirees coming off of staff, not O-3 dissociated guys.

I didn't know that was even a possibility. How much extra legwork is required for those guys?

 

[BACONATOR]

I didn't know that was even a possibility. How much extra legwork is required for those guys?

From what I saw, some were hired outright and said it was a non-issue. Again, a 4K hour LtCol AMC sq/cc... I would imagine it's not a big deal. For those who didn't get picked up at majors immediately, I saw some get hired at regionals first and before IOE, were getting picked up at the majors. All anecdotal, but it seems that desperation calls for lowering the bar in many respects.

 

[nittany03]

It's easy to criticize someone's choice without knowing the full story or being in their shoes... Those are specific reasons that possibly have some physiological issues driving them instead of him being a stereotypical child attitude from someone who was jaded he didn't get what he wanted. Sounds like the guy knew he'd be miserable every day for the next 10 years of his life every time he flew... more power to him for avoiding that, cutting the military's losses, and not becoming a safety hazard to his squadron mates.

All true. My point was that it was a waste of money to drive someone who had jet grades into a situation where he had zero interest in continuing. People aren't widgets.

 

[DanMa1156]

My onwing in primary was a C-2 guy and gave me some great advice I'll never forget:

"You're picking 3 things when you select: 1. How big of a circle you want to fly. P-3s fly the biggest ones, jets fly medium sized circles, and helos fly small ones. 2. Where you can possibly live. 3. Who you are hanging out with. Regardless of platform, 30 hours is a good month - what are you doing the other 29 days of the month, where are you doing them, and who are you hanging out with?"

That made me want helo's San Diego and I got that for my fleet tour.

In fairness, I wish he also would have said things like: "making DH and beyond is insanely harder in some communities than others" and so on, but his advice I think still rings true today.

 

[nittany03]

Regardless of platform, 30 hours is a good month - what are you doing the other 29 days of the month, where are you doing them, and who are you hanging out with?"

So much of this is not platform-dependent. It's dependent on what squadron you get and what BUPERS does with said squadron in the years you're there. Any community at any given time has ready rooms which are tight as hell and fun to be in, and others which are full of high school backbiting bullshit. And the former is but a change of command or a few PCSes away from turning into the latter. And vice versa. No community has a lock on cool people or douchebaggery.

 

[DocT]

So much of this is not platform-dependent. It's dependent on what squadron you get and what BUPERS does with said squadron in the years you're there. Any community at any given time has ready rooms which are tight as hell and fun to be in, and others which are full of high school backbiting bullshit. And the former is but a change of command or a few PCSes away from turning into the latter. And vice versa. No community has a lock on cool people or douchebaggery.

Truth. The best squadron is always a shitty skipper from suckling at the tit of disappointment. However communities do have reputations that tend to ring true. I was told by an instructor (navy) "pick the community you'd want to spend Christmas Day in a bar with". Best advice I got. Followed closely by "live where you drink...drive to work".

 

[DanMa1156]

So much of this is not platform-dependent. It's dependent on what squadron you get and what BUPERS does with said squadron in the years you're there. Any community at any given time has ready rooms which are tight as hell and fun to be in, and others which are full of high school backbiting bullshit. And the former is but a change of command or a few PCSes away from turning into the latter. And vice versa. No community has a lock on cool people or douchebaggery.

I agree, but each platform has its own culture for sure. Obviously has a primary student, you have no clue, but you get a feel for the instructors that are there. My perceptions of the HSC community in primary and advanced were pretty close to what it actually was in terms of culture. That was definitely influenced by the instructors I had.

And as far as locations, I think it's reasonable to say I was also comfortable going to Norfolk, Guam, Japan, Pensacola, Corpus, and Jax. I did not want to go to Lemoore, Meridian, or Kingsville (excluding training, but assuming I would be able to get a follow on tour as an IP).

 

[Hotdogs]

I agree, but each platform has its own culture for sure. Obviously has a primary student, you have no clue, but you get a feel for the instructors that are there. My perceptions of the HSC community in primary and advanced were pretty close to what it actually was in terms of culture. That was definitely influenced by the instructors I had.

...and unfortunately some communities (...or services) are not intently trying not to send their best and brightest to flight school because of perception of said billet on promotion boards and career impacts. So the result is an IP in flight school who is doing his time to get out because of 1) He never intended to stay in the first place and/or 2) Potentially bitter and jaded attitude toward their own community.

 

[DanMa1156]

...and unfortunately some communities (...or services) are not intently trying not to send their best and brightest to flight school because of perception of said billet on promotion boards and career impacts. So the result is an IP in flight school who is doing his time to get out because of 1) He never intended to stay in the first place and/or 2) Potentially bitter and jaded attitude toward their own community.

I can't speak to the USMC side of the house obviously, but I felt like my community was sending some solid performers to the HT's. From my squadron alone over 3 FITREP reporting periods, we sent a #1, 3 #2's, and a #4. Anyone who was below that #4 went on to either Station SAR or a non-flying gig. Same community, different squadron, same FITREP reporting period, #1 HT's, #2 VT's.

Either way, I see your point, and I definitely remember bitter P-3 guys in my primary squadron.

 

[Austin-Powers]

Why are P-3 Aviators bitter? I am still a civilian, but a P-3 doesn't seem like a bad aircraft to fly...

 

[Swanee]

The Marine Jet guys when I was in Primary definitely didn't like being in the T-34, but they did a good job of talking up the community.

It wasn't until I got to Kingsville that the Marines were fairly ... Jaded about being there, and generally unhappy with life.

 

[Recovering LSO]

Why are P-3 Aviators bitter? I am still a civilian, but a P-3 doesn't seem like a bad aircraft to fly...

I believe there was/is an entire thread on this topic