Shore Duties

[Flash]

Yes they do, but many of them are nowhere near as shitty as the boat, there are often careerist Officers who voluntarily take these "opportunities to excel" and there is a FAR better chance of flying your entire contract in the Air Force. I had many colleagues who did just that when I was in their world. It is virtually impossible to do that in non-tacair Naval Aviation.

Yes and no. There may be more opportunity to fly but that opportunity also includes flying from a container in the Nevada desert. Hundreds of USAF pilots have been drafted to fly UAV's and many have never left. Some of the luckier ones were pulled out of their original platforms after just a year or two to fly C-12's or U-28's. Then there was TAMI-21, a disaster to pilot morale that is still bemoaned 10 years later. Most of the ones you flew with were the lucky ones.

Every service has their shit sandwiches, doesn't matter much if they come in different flavors.

 

[Brett327]

not so much in the Navy

FWIW, I know lots of people who have flown for their entire MSR contract - three of my 4 DHs have never left the cockpit. Certainly not the norm, but saying that it's not possible isn't painting an accurate picture.

in the Navy these days, you're lucky to fly for your second tour at all

Every JO (and DH, for that matter) that has left my squadron in the last 14 months has gone to flying orders - RAG, NAWDC, TPS/VX

 

[BACONATOR]

FWIW, I know lots of people who have flown for their entire MSR contract - three of my 4 DHs have never left the cockpit. Certainly not the norm, but saying that it's not possible isn't painting an accurate picture.


Every JO (and DH, for that matter) that has left my squadron in the last 14 months has gone to flying orders - RAG, NAWDC, TPS/VX

I was talking about non-TACAIR folks. Obviously it's possible, and certainly a fairly normal career path for some cats (SWTIs, etc). But for most helo/P-3/TACAMO, you're going to the boat in some capacity.

TACAIR is a whole different beast due to retention, training timelines vs MSR etc.

 

[Brett327]

I was talking about non-TACAIR folks. Obviously it's possible, and certainly a fairly normal career path for some cats (SWTIs, etc). But for most helo/P-3/TACAMO, you're going to the boat in some capacity.

TACAIR is a whole different beast due to retention, training timelines vs MSR etc.

Yes, I understand that, but the thread reviver may not.

 

[BACONATOR]

Yes and no. There may be more opportunity to fly but that opportunity also includes flying from a container in the Nevada desert. Hundreds of USAF pilots have been drafted to fly UAV's and many have never left. Some of the luckier ones were pulled out of their original platforms after just a year or two to fly C-12's or U-28's. Then there was TAMI-21, a disaster to pilot morale that is still bemoaned 10 years later. Most of the ones you flew with were the lucky ones.

Every service has their shit sandwiches, doesn't matter much if they come in different flavors.

I think the "sky is falling" UAV draft is mostly over. With the advent of the RPA program, it all but disappeared, and only recently did they start pulling pilots from flight training back to the hole. But frankly, the ones I know that got drafted... probably shouldn't have made it past Phase II (read: primary). They are rare and usually ways to preserve a kid's career, when he probably shouldn't have been flying a gray plane.

But tell me this, for as many of the "shit sandwiches" that the Air Force may have, does the Navy have a "deployment" where they'll pull you from the VTs to go fly a Global Express around the sandbox, get a free ATP and type in the training, 1500 hours of heavy Jet time in less than a year, do nothing but fly airline style, and... get this... get to deploy with your wife doing the same thing... DINK, tax-free? No? That happened to two of my peers who were married and volunteered for this "deployment" together. I believe they are at the majors now, probably after getting paid 100K to break their contract early via VSP to go civilian and strike while the iron is hot. I can't imagine a parallel universe where the Navy would allow or have ANY of this scenario.

Wait, where was I going with this again? Oh, right. The Air Force has shit sandwiches, too.... I guess.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

More than 125 hours a month, every month, for a year?

 

[Flash]

I think the "sky is falling" UAV draft is mostly over. .

I wouldn't be so sure, as you say yourself:

With the advent of the RPA program, it all but disappeared, and only recently did they start pulling pilots from flight training back to the hole.

But frankly, the ones I know that got drafted... probably shouldn't have made it past Phase II (read: primary). They are rare and usually ways to preserve a kid's career, when he probably shouldn't have been flying a gray plane.

I have known pretty that got drafted after they got their wings. With how poorly the USAF handles personnel I wouldn't be surprised if they have to stoop to that again. After all, this is the same service that goes to the airlines to ask them to lower their hiring standards and is thinking about stop-losing pilots.

...But tell me this, for as many of the "shit sandwiches" that the Air Force may have, does the Navy have a "deployment" where they'll pull you from the VTs to go fly a Global Express around the sandbox, get a free ATP and type in the training, 1500 hours of heavy Jet time in less than a year, do nothing but fly airline style, and... get this... get to deploy with your wife doing the same thing... DINK, tax-free? No? That happened to two of my peers who were married and volunteered for this "deployment" together. I believe they are at the majors now, probably after getting paid 100K to break their contract early via VSP to go civilian and strike while the iron is hot. I can't imagine a parallel universe where the Navy would allow or have ANY of this scenario.

The Navy has plenty of good deals too, just because you were at an Air Force command where you saw some of theirs doesn't mean ours don't exist. As a matter of fact, I heard of one deal where you get a transition to a fixed wing multi-engine platform and fly cargo around like an Air Force pilot for living. Maybe even set you up for an airline job in the future!

...Wait, where was I going with this again? Oh, right. The Air Force has shit sandwiches, too.... I guess.

Yes, yes they do. Welcome to your life for the next 2...no 3...wait, 5 years?

 

[BACONATOR]

The Navy has plenty of good deals too, just because you were at an Air Force command where you saw some of theirs doesn't mean ours don't exist. As a matter of fact, I heard of one deal where you get a transition to a fixed wing multi-engine platform and fly cargo around like an Air Force pilot for living. Maybe even set you up for an airline job in the future!

Hah, touche'!

And everything aside, who doesn't like to play a short round of "grass is greener" or "devil's advocate" every now and again? You're right about personnel... first the AF is paying dudes 6 figures to leave EARLY for the airlines, now they are maybe going to stop-loss?? Color me flummoxed.

 

[Flash]

..And everything aside, who doesn't like to play a short round of "grass is greener" or "devil's advocate" every now and again? You're right about personnel... first the AF is paying dudes 6 figures to leave EARLY for the airlines, now they are maybe going to stop-loss?? Color me flummoxed.

Every time I think the Navy has screwed up personnel issues all I have to do is look at what the Air Force is doing lately.

 

[zippy]

Yes and no. There may be more opportunity to fly but that opportunity also includes flying from a container in the Nevada desert. Hundreds of USAF pilots have been drafted to fly UAV's and many have never left. Some of the luckier ones were pulled out of their original platforms after just a year or two to fly C-12's or U-28's. Then there was TAMI-21, a disaster to pilot morale that is still bemoaned 10 years later. Most of the ones you flew with were the lucky ones.

Every service has their shit sandwiches, doesn't matter much if they come in different flavors.

As Flash said, UAVs are still a very popular choice for 4 year assignments in the Air Force... right before someone's commitment is up. The majority seem to be coming from the AMC community (most examples I know of are C-17 pilots).

MC-12s as a 1 year first tour AD option before final platform has gone away... those were "given to the army" and subsequently turned over to contractors to crew.

U-28s are like the Hotel California... once you're drafted into them it's very difficult to leave. OPStempo in AFSOC is too high for them to legitimize letting many, if any, folks go...

 

[zippy]

More than 125 hours a month, every month, for a year?

If it's the deployment I think he's talking about then:
1) Global Express- yes
2) "Heavy"- maybe in the corporate sense but not "heavy" in the airline sense.
3) 1000hrs in 12 months easy so 1500hrs doable assuming it's a 365 day deployment and they're willing to fly a bunch.
4) Ive only personally seen them in shitholes but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a need for them some place nice.

From the info I've got from sharing hangar space with these folks it's a pretty popular deployment to get for obvious reasons,,

 

[JWL]

Yes they do, but many of them are nowhere near as shitty as the boat, there are often careerist Officers who voluntarily take these "opportunities to excel" and there is a FAR better chance of flying your entire contract in the Air Force. I had many colleagues who did just that when I was in their world. It is virtually impossible to do that in non-tacair Naval Aviation.

TL;DR: if you want to command something, the Air Force makes you do staff BS, too. If you want to avoid that at all costs and fly your whole contract, it's very possible in the AF, and not so much in the Navy. Hell, in the Navy these days, you're lucky to fly for your second tour at all. Long gone are the days when people could look down on TRACOM IPs.

Thanks for the insight. Apologies, but what is the "boat" (I assume you mean boat duty?)?

If a naval aviator's first shore tour duty does not involve flying, such as an instructor pilot tour, and such a tour is then followed by a disassociated sea tour where one does not fly (if you're not flying, are learning to drive a ship?), does not mean a designated aviator may not fly for 5 years after the end of that first sea tour? And, what if that disassociated tour is followed by another non-flying 2 year shore tour? That's 7 years with no flying?

 

[JWL]

Yes and no. There may be more opportunity to fly but that opportunity also includes flying from a container in the Nevada desert. Hundreds of USAF pilots have been drafted to fly UAV's and many have never left. Some of the luckier ones were pulled out of their original platforms after just a year or two to fly C-12's or U-28's. Then there was TAMI-21, a disaster to pilot morale that is still bemoaned 10 years later. Most of the ones you flew with were the lucky ones.

Every service has their shit sandwiches, doesn't matter much if they come in different flavors.

Oh yeah, forgot about UAVs. Are all UAV pilots winged pilots who can otherwise fly a real craft? That must suck to go through all that training and basically fly the equivalent of a video game.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Thanks for the insight. Apologies, but what is the "boat" (I assume you mean boat duty?)?

Bruh. If you're still at asking, "what is the 'boat'?", you need to go do some homework. Read the AW ROE and sticky threads, google is your friend. You're spamming threads with some very, very basic questions.

 

[DanMa1156]

To be clear, and this is not something I think we spell out clearly on these threads: If you do not fly on your second tour (a pilot's first traditional "shore" tour), it is very unlikely one will every fly again in the current Navy. There are a few exceptions like Admirals' Aides and some folks with some very weird timing, but by and large, DO NOT EXPECT to ever fly again in the Navy if you either choose or have chosen for you a second tour that is not involving flight in at least some capacity.