Not saluting them but everything else that comes with the rank should be accorded them, from PSDs to quarters to 'authority'.
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Saluting Mids
- Thread starter Gatordev
- Start date
Not saluting them but everything else that comes with the rank should be accorded them, from PSDs to quarters to 'authority'.
Sapper!
Excuse the BS...
Understood and absolutely.
US Army enlisted personnel salute other enlisted when reporting in formation or turning over formations. Very simple and makes alot of sense when doing it. As per regs:
4-13. All soldiers in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled (by grade) to a salute except when it is inappropriate or impractical (in public conveyances such as planes and buses, in public places such as inside theaters, or when driving a vehicle). A salute is also rendered:
- When the United States National Anthem, "To the Color," "Hail to the Chief," or foreign national anthems are played.
- To uncased National Color outdoors.
- On ceremonial occasions such as changes of command or funerals.
- At reveille and retreat ceremonies, during the raising or lowering of the flag.
- During the sounding of honors.
- When pledging allegiance to the US flag outdoors.
- When turning over control of formations.
- When rendering reports.
- To officers of friendly foreign countries
- Indoors, unless reporting to an officer or when on duty as a guard.
- A prisoner.
- Saluting is obviously inappropriate. In any case not covered by specific instructions, render the salute.
- Either the senior or the subordinate is wearing civilian clothes.
Again…this has to do with how people might line up in a receiving line at the White House or some such thing…not with military courtesies on meeting or passing. Unless you really want to get all bogged down with saluting all Archbishops and then figuring out which Bishops are "Bishops of Washington". Sheesh...
I'm probably not getting through here…but shame on you if you ever let the Sergeant Major of the Army walk past you in uniform without s/he initiating the military courtesy.
That was the point I tried to make with some of the Army guys (to emphasize, they were not talking about saluting) but alas, it didn't seem to get through.......
Just so long as YOU understand…I'm happy for that. Army guys are gonna do what Army guys do, I guess...
There's ten minutes of reading I won't get back. On a related notes, on of my USMC buddies called me "nasty" when he saw me walking and talking on my cell phone today. I tried to explain to him about the NAVADMIN authorizing such, he didn't believe. He's going to owe me beer tomorrow. (It was all with a smile on both faces, no BF going on)
Pickle
Pickle
I have come to understand that Marines hate themselves and push more extra requirements on themselves as a group, than a chief who forgot his coffee below deck.
At our unit there was a decent push back when us Officer Candidates would wear a black backpack on BOTH shoulders while in Khakis because they believe it is "nasty" to wear a backpack over more than just their left shoulder, even though naval uniform regulations specifically states that it is permissible. Now to wait for the dog pile of additional inter-service disparities that we each think is retarded.
At our unit there was a decent push back when us Officer Candidates would wear a black backpack on BOTH shoulders while in Khakis because they believe it is "nasty" to wear a backpack over more than just their left shoulder, even though naval uniform regulations specifically states that it is permissible. Now to wait for the dog pile of additional inter-service disparities that we each think is retarded.
I have come to understand that Marines hate themselves and push more extra requirements on themselves as a group, than a chief who forgot his coffee below deck.
At our unit there was a decent push back when us Officer Candidates would wear a black backpack on BOTH shoulders while in Khakis because they believe it is "nasty" to wear a backpack over more than just their left shoulder, even though naval uniform regulations specifically states that it is permissible. Now to wait for the dog pile of additional inter-service disparities that we each think is retarded.
...You don't wear non-issued backpacks in uniform in the USMC. When you do wear an issued one it is supposed to be on both shoulders.
How would anyone tell it's non-issue as long as it's a Blackhawk/5.11 bag in the appropriate moto color/camo pattern?
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/art...19/Uniform-changes-include-new-backpack-rules
Granted I know it is "Marine Times" and I am sure I could look up the regulations, however my care factor to really know what is in the marine uniform reg's is pretty low. I probably should have instead made it more clear that when we inform them that our reg's (being navy) state it can be on both shoulders or the left shoulder, they attempt to force us to their regulations for the sake of "our own good" stating that it is "nasty", even if it is authorized.
Correct
It's usually a command sponsored attitude.
I've met CSMs that are completely respectful to the point of being the lead guy in jumping a group to attention when that new platoon leader is walking up to a smoke and joke party.
Then I've met CSMs who thought e selves second only to the battalion/brigade/etc commander. Ones that insisted on putting rooms at ease when ere are officers present, etc. Usually that is the result of a Commander who lets them use his authority to punish anyone that steps out of their image of how it should work.
I had some LTC that I don't work for make me stand on the carpet because his CSM got bent when myself and another officer got in "his way" while he was trying to exercise some sort of bullshit over some of our crew chiefs that again don't work for him. He did what a lot of them do, ran to his boss to yell at my boss to yell at me. I reminded the LTC that while his experience and knowledge are a privilege to have that he was out of his lane and his disrespectful nature wasn't in line with customs and courtesies. I also reminded him at while I didn't raise issue with it in front of soldiers because it would be better done in private, custom requires we act certain ways, and even my father in law the 30 year time in service E9 that he is, salutes me in uniform and end sentences with Sir, not Chief. Didn't get beat up over it, but the asshole in question stopped stalking in our area.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
I have come to understand that Marines hate themselves and push more extra requirements on themselves as a group, than a chief who forgot his coffee below deck.
At our unit there was a decent push back when us Officer Candidates would wear a black backpack on BOTH shoulders while in Khakis because they believe it is "nasty" to wear a backpack over more than just their left shoulder, even though naval uniform regulations specifically states that it is permissible. Now to wait for the dog pile of additional inter-service disparities that we each think is retarded.
Here's my take:
You're in a commissioning pipeline. Do what you're told by the staff who trains you. A Navy OC is not going to convince a Marine SNCO that his conception of proper uniform wear is wrong, and it's not worth the effort even if he could. As far as he's concerned, if he's training you then he owns you and your military appearance. If his superiors see his OC's walking around looking all 'nasty,' he's gonna get it...and then you will, too. You do stuff outside of normal uniform regs and protocol for reasons that are not going to be apparent to you until much later.
After commissioning you can walk around with a backpack on both shoulders to your heart's content.
There have been several message changes to the uniform regs. It would be nice if they were formally revved and we at least had a 10 minute pow-wow about the changes. Had a Master Chief ask me in private if it was okay to walk and talk on a cell-phone because he got a similar response from a junior Sailor when he told him to stop (that's when I first looked into and found the change), and in another case had I not been with someone more knowledgable I would've asked some E-2s why they were wearing NWUs to the mall.
Whenever the yuts get bent out of shape about something uniform wise, I just tell
them that I'm sorry that we're treated like adults and don't have to rely on our service chief to dress us in the mornings by dictating what we wear
I have no idea where this "staff who trains you" assumption came from, rather we are discussing the fact that you have both Marine enlisted and Navy enlisted who are attempting to commission through the same pipeline where the Marine enlisted far outnumber the Navy enlisted. Mix that with "staff" who are both Navy AND Marine where the Navy staff control the Navy OC's and the Marine staff control the Marine OC's. Then add the fact that you have Midshipmen who are the majority Navy option with a minority of Marine option in the midst, you result with a whole lot of soon to be ensigns being trained as if they are about to be 2nd LT's.
So although I would agree with what your saying about listening to the staff who train us, it becomes very complicated when it is believed that both parties of OC's are required to help "train" the Midshipmen (specifically with upholding things such as uniform regulations) and then you have both the Navy and Marine's coming up with their own set of service implied or directed regulations and forcing them on a group of individuals with no documentation to prove who is correct, since there is no command endorsed standards.
Not sure how you took my "Marine love" ribbing comments to be complaints about my situation I am in with respect to my command when you knew nothing about the marines in question, however I am sure you can appreciate the idea having standards written somewhere as opposed to tribal knowledge at the whim of whoever is the closest or the loudest.
As to doing stuff outside of normal uniform regs and protocol for reasons that are not going to be apparent to me until much later ..... really.... you seriously wrote that? I guess I need to wait until I have been in the Navy as an Officer for five years to figure out that knowledge.... Or maybe if I had been stationed on a fast attack rather than the Cadillac of submarines....
/end rant/ I need to get back to my coloring books so that I can commission and be treated like a "real boy" in two more months!