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12 Dead, 31 Wounded @ FT HOOD

mmx1 said:
It's pretty common to lump the DC Snipers as "Islamofascist terrorists", but they never exhibited a political intent, either.
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Good point, while it was never proven in court the prosecutors and many police thought his eventual target was John Allen Muhammad's ex-wife, who lived in the DC area. A perfect example of a motivation no one thought of until later.

Still way to early to know this guy's motivation, that is why we have police and the FBI to find that kind of stuff out and not internet forums.
 
Flash said:
Good point, while it was never proven in court the prosecutors and many police thought his eventual target was John Allen Muhammad's ex-wife, who lived in the DC area. A perfect example of a motivation no one thought of until later.

Still way to early to know this guy's motivation, that is why we have police and the FBI to find that kind of stuff out and not internet forums.
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Nope we don't need all those. We have trained experts on here. Bevo, Mumbles...........
 
Mumbles said:
He's a TERRORIST of the Islamofascist America hating variety, ( is there anybody on this board that in their little heart of hearts dosn't believe that this is true??)....and there isn't a single voice in our Chain of Command that will call a spade a spade, (at least not publicly). I'm beyond flummexed.
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Does that mean you have the Mexican Influenza? I've heard of the Spanish variety, but not one from "South of the Border"...

The Chain of Command doesn't have the luxury of jumping to conclusions; they like to use "facts". If they push something about him being a "TERRORIST of the Islamofascist America-hating (hyphen?) variety and it later turns out incorrect, they will be (rightly) crushed. There is nothing to be gained by pushing the "OMGTERRORISTOMG" angle early; why are you so anxious to come to that conclusion?

(Hope I don't flummox you :D)
 
HercDriver said:
Does that mean you have the Mexican Influenza? I've heard of the Spanish variety, but not one from "South of the Border"...

The Chain of Command doesn't have the luxury of jumping to conclusions; they like to use "facts". If they push something about him being a "TERRORIST of the Islamofascist America-hating (hyphen?) variety and it later turns out incorrect, they will be (rightly) crushed. There is nothing to be gained by pushing the "OMGTERRORISTOMG" angle early; why are you so anxious to come to that conclusion?

(Hope I don't flummox you :D)
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dammit...
you made a funny Herc... I think I am Flummexed because my girfriend is Mexican and on the other side of the country right now.
 
Mumbles said:
He's a TERRORIST of the Islamofascist America hating variety, ( is there anybody on this board that in their little heart of hearts dosn't believe that this is true??)....and there isn't a single voice in our Chain of Command that will call a spade a spade, (at least not publicly). I'm beyond flummexed.
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Well, it's certainly a possibility, but none of us know this as a fact, so I think it's best to allow the investigation to run its course before we start assailing the credibility of the leadership. As has already been pointed out, this is an ongoing criminal investigation, so if officials start coming out publicly with statements of conclusion, it could jeopardize the prosecution's efforts of getting this guy convicted with a maximum sentence.

I doubt any of you want this guy to get any less than he deserves - use your heads.

Many of you are so God damned impatient about a host of issues here - kind of disturbing. There's a process, let it run its course, then you can pass judgment based on the facts - not what you think you know.

Brett
 
HercDriver said:
Does that mean you have the Mexican Influenza? I've heard of the Spanish variety, but not one from "South of the Border"...

The Chain of Command doesn't have the luxury of jumping to conclusions; they like to use "facts". If they push something about him being a "TERRORIST of the Islamofascist America-hating (hyphen?) variety and it later turns out incorrect, they will be (rightly) crushed. There is nothing to be gained by pushing the "OMGTERRORISTOMG" angle early; why are you so anxious to come to that conclusion?

(Hope I don't flummox you :D)
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Alright Brother...
than please elucidate the rest of us unwashed as to some alternative motives.
 
Wouldn't Yelling "Allahu Akbar" right before blowing away all those people give you a hint that he might be an Islamic terrorist?? Pretty sure there were witnesses who saw/heard the above.
 
Mumbles said:
Alright Brother...
than please elucidate the rest of us unwashed as to some alternative motives.
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Wait; I just wagged my finger at you for conjecture with limited facts, and you want me to do the same? Hmmmm.

And I'm as unwashed as you are, but just more patient to let the process take its course.:)
 
Clux4 said:
He must be a weak terrorist. Especially in a place like Ft. Hood, he could have gone down with way more people. So no I do not really think he is a terrorist. I am not going to go into details and give terrorist ideas on an open forum but think about events in London and Spain and the level of destruction. Compare those attacks. Do you see the difference?
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YOU are a clown par excellance...
wow.
 
Mumbles said:
Alright Brother...
than please elucidate the rest of us unwashed as to some alternative motives.
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Maybe he was insane. Maybe he was so dissatisfied with his life and didn't want to go on deployment that he decided to commit suicide by cop and things just didn't work out. People go on rampages all the time for a host of reasons. Just because the guy said "God is greatest" in Arabic as he was being shot doesn't necessarily mean he's working for Al Qaeda. It could mean he's just a penitent Muslim who's asking for a little grace from God because he thinks he's about to die.

These are all possibilities, right along with Islamo-terrorism.

The terrorist cause just makes everything nice and easy for everyone, doesn't it? It's a lot harder to understand or make sense out of some of the other reasons. We Americans like things we can easily put in a box, but it ain't always so.

In the end, he may very well have been working for Al Qaeda, but nobody knows at this point and speculating doesn't get us anywhere.

Brett
 
OttoWrote8 said:
Wouldn't Yelling "Allahu Akbar" right before blowing away all those people give you a hint that he might be an Islamic terrorist?? Pretty sure there were witnesses who saw/heard the above.
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You of all people should appreciate the religious nuance here.

Brett
 
Brett327 said:
Maybe he was insane. Maybe he was so dissatisfied with his life and didn't want to go on deployment that he decided to commit suicide by cop and things just didn't work out. People go on rampages all the time for a host of reasons. Just because the guy said "God is greatest" in Arabic as he was being shot doesn't necessarily mean he's working for Al Qaeda. It could mean he's just a penitent Muslim who's asking for a little grace from God because he thinks he's about to die.

These are all possibilities, right along with Islamo-terrorism.

The terrorist cause just makes everything nice and easy for everyone, doesn't it? It's a lot harder to understand or make sense out of some of the other reasons. We Americans like things we can easily put in a box, but it ain't always so.

In the end, he may very well have been working for Al Qaeda, but nobody knows at this point and speculating doesn't get us anywhere.

Brett
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I can't disagree with a single word you say..
And nobody on this board can read into this man's mind or soul. It's highly suspect to me though, that the lion's share of violent, terrorist(yes I said the T word) acts in this world are commited by those that profess allegiance/fidelity to the faith of Islam. I don't think that the faith is inherantly evil.. I just see a pattern.
 
Bevo said:
Newsflash dude:
THE GUY WAS A MUSLIM!!!!!

Any other dots you need connected?

Do you need me to link some New York Times story about the guy's statements, the arguments he got into with his peers about the subject, and the esteem than he held suicide bombers?

For fuck's sake. It's this kind of "yea, but can you PROVE it?" stupidity that has us constantly behind the curve. I don't need to PROVE anything. The shooter proved MY point last Thursday. If you really want to believe that his religion was TOTALLY disconnected to his actions...well...that's just fucking stupid.
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That initial seeming generalization aside, I agree with the overall point you're making. There were indications that he was religiously motivated, and the fact that witnesses said he shouted "allahu akbar" is a pretty bright red flag. But IMO and from what little I've read in the news, this guy doesn't seem like other terrorists that subscribe to extreme views for some time and plot attacks. It sounds more like he just has underlying psychological problems that came to a head in this attack. I think the religious motivations come into play in the sense that he was probably confused about his religious views for some time, and after becoming extremely discontent with his life to the point of crisis, he snapped and immediately gravitated toward the extreme side of things.
 
Mos said:
That initial seeming generalization aside, I agree with the overall point you're making. ....... I think the religious motivations come into play in the sense that he was probably confused about his religious views for some time, and after becoming extremely discontent with his life to the point of crisis, he snapped and immediately gravitated toward the extreme side of things.
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Every individual Muslim terrorist has a reason for when and why they decide to commit acts of murder. The time line does not really matter, and the root cause (their religion) is the same.

The most similar event happened in Afghanistan in early April. This particular murderous Muslim terrorist was an Afghan Army Soldier. He had been through all of the screening processes, he had been trained by the US Military, and then one day he decided to murder four of our officers. Luckily, two of them lived.

It took less than 12 hours to decide that this particular traitor was in fact an insurgent. It's not like they had to do any big investigation into his background or interview his friends or find out if he was a formal member of Al Qaeda (like they carry an ID or something).

This discussion is turning into nothing but basic definition arguments. If someone does not really believe that we are in a global war against radical Muslim extremists, then you are not going to believe that this guy basically switched sides and is in fact a traitor. He is just someone who "snapped".

The problem in classifying this POS is the same problem we are having in Iraq and Afghanistan. How do you tell the good Muslim from the bad ones? The ones that are shooting at you are bad? That's pretty much it. With that singular method of terrorist identification, Major Hasan made it clear which brand of Muslim he is. He is a terrorist.
 
So when a Muslim commits murder it's automatically terrorism? The guy in upstate New York (who wanted to debunk Muslim stereotypes) who decapitated his wife was a terrorist?
 
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