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Studying Abroad

le lyon

le lyon

NFO BDCP'er
First off just wanted to say how much I love this forum. It was extremely helpful to me in my BDCP application process. Great gouge all around. I was selected last month for SNFO BDCP, sworn in shortly after...all that good stuff:D. Anyway, my question is this: I'm studying abroad this summer in the south of France, and I was wondering how careful I should be about wearing clothes with military logo's, etc. I've never been abroad before, so I'm not really sure how I would be received with say a Navy t-shirt or something like that. I was just wondering if anyone with some experience travelling abroad would have some input for me. It's not like I'm going to the Gaza Strip or anything, but who knows...Thanks!
 
Don't be obnoxious/overly obvious about it, and people will be fine. I spent a month in Germany backpacking last summer and wore some navy related t-shirts, and people were great about it. Most just wanted to know how i felt about the war, and what exactly my job was. As long as you aren't constantly drawing attention to yourself you'll be fine. You'll have an awesome time, definitely take advantage of the train system to see other places (Italy, Germany, Amsterdam) because you won't have time to travel once you hit flight school.
 
lelyon--I lived in the south of France for three years (about 20 mins from Avignon.) Simply put, you can wear whatever you want as long as you show respect and don't be a snobby American!
 
Ask yourself why you would want to wear anything with the military's logo in a foreign country--especially considering that you're not even really in the military--and the answer is probably the very thing that would make some kinds of people dislike you. And France is full of those kinds...
So, my questions:
1) Do you not have any other clothes?
2) Do you WANT to antagonize people, even though they be douches?
3) Are you aware that the DOD encourages military members traveling abroad to try to NOT stand out as members of the military?

My counterpoint:
Are you sure that France isn't like the Gaza Strip?

My attempt to take the edge off:
BDCP is an AWESOME deal. I myself suckled at that teet for two years. But you are military on paper alone (and plastic, I suppose, with your ID card). Don't try to rush things. Take my word for it...as an NFO, you'll earn that money some day.
 
Thanks, guys. Obviously I don't want to antagonize people, and certainly won't be jogging through the streets shouting, "1, 2, 3, 4 I love the Marine Corps!" lol. I do have a lot of Navy stuff, though, so it's nice to know that if I'm running low on tee's and don't feel like doing laundry in my host family's place, I can at least wear it without being chastised. Anghockey, Avignon is actually where I'm going. Is there anywhere I should avoid around Avignon, as an American abroad? I know, for instance, that the suburbs (la banlieue) in Paris are pretty bad.
 
le lyon said:
Thanks, guys. Obviously I don't want to antagonize people, and certainly won't be jogging through the streets shouting, "1, 2, 3, 4 I love the Marine Corps!" lol. I do have a lot of Navy stuff, though, so it's nice to know that if I'm running low on tee's and don't feel like doing laundry in my host family's place, I can at least wear it without being chastised. Anghockey, Avignon is actually where I'm going. Is there anywhere I should avoid around Avignon, as an American abroad? I know, for instance, that the suburbs (la banlieue) in Paris are pretty bad.
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You don't know that for certain. I spent a long time as a Force Protection Officer, an even longer time stationed abroad, and now deal with the issue of keeping a low profile while overseas constantly.

Don't make yourself a target. You don't know what crazies you'll encounter, even going to get milk at the corner store.

Getting jacked because "I was running low on t-shirts" doesn't pass the stupid test.
 
le lyon said:
it's nice to know that if I'm running low on tee's and don't feel like doing laundry in my host family's place, I can at least wear it without being chastised...
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That's a fairly large assumption. I had a friend get stood up in Manchester, England because he wore a USAF hat his dad gave him. Then again, my footie team wore Top Gun costumes for Halloween and got rave reviews. YMMV

For my $.02, stay inconspicuous, gracious, and polite. People usually love to help out a traveler who shows them their due respect. The French may have a bad rap here, but a learning how to ask in French if they spoke one of my languages got me tons and tons of help over there, wherever I needed it.
 
Yeah, upon further reconsideration it's probably not best to draw attention in that fashion. It's not the majority you have to worry about, but as Zab said, the crazies. I am fluent in French though, so maybe that will go a long way towards earning their respect and keeping the crazies away.
 
le lyon said:
Thanks, guys. Obviously I don't want to antagonize people, and certainly won't be jogging through the streets shouting, "1, 2, 3, 4 I love the Marine Corps!" lol. I do have a lot of Navy stuff, though, so it's nice to know that if I'm running low on tee's and don't feel like doing laundry in my host family's place, I can at least wear it without being chastised. Anghockey, Avignon is actually where I'm going. Is there anywhere I should avoid around Avignon, as an American abroad? I know, for instance, that the suburbs (la banlieue) in Paris are pretty bad.
Click to expand...

I lived in Paris last semester and you are certainly right about the banlieue... some of it is really dangerous, even if you're French. It can sometimes be hard to tell when you've ventured over that line though, so just stay conscious of that if you're visiting Paris for the first time (idk if you've already been there or not, sorry if I'm telling you something you already knew!). A zip code beginning with anything other than 75 is not Paris, and ones that begin with 9s are banlieue. Oh and in my experience, the French have been a lot nicer to Americans post-08 election. I was there for the whole process (voting by absentee ballot, staying up to hear the results on election day, etc.), and the shift in attitude post-election was like night and day. Even before that, though, I had less trouble with the stereotypical "rude Frenchmen" outside of Paris- really, it's the Parisians that give France a bad rap. Anyway, I'm sure you're going to love it! La France est vraiment magnifique. Bonne chance, et bon courage!

OH and if you haven't already been, definitely go to Normandy. The beaches and especially the American Cemetery are AMAZING and such a moving experience. A must for patriots such as you or I haha :D
 
Whether it's good attention or bad attention - you're still drawing attention to yourself. Maybe you're having a nice conversation in a cafe with a belle femme about your job...who else is listening? Who else is watching?

You have a lot bigger concerns as a member of the US military abroad than some Frenchman making disparaging remarks. That's why we don't go in uniform, and why we don't wear anything that draws attention to ourselves.

Any further doubts, I direct you to the memory of SW2 (DV) Robert Stethem.
 
There is a large Muslim population in France too, especially in the suburbs, locations of the riots and unrest from a little while back. Just something to think about.

I used to have an American flag patch on my back pack that I travel with, but unfortunately I had to remove it for my own safety during my travels. The one exception was when I was in Israel where most people seemed to like Americans. However, I was especially careful in the West Bank. Just be aware of your surroundings (situational awareness) and up on your current events and local culture. I've been chewed out, yelled at by taxi drivers in China, Turkey, waiters in France, Italy, Greece when they find out I'm American. Most of it is because they don't like our government (i.e. - George Bush) so they take it out on the people a bit. I was wearing my UCLA t-shirt in Paris when I was chewed out by a French guy. For a guy who supposedly didn't speak English, he sure knew how to curse.

Another time I was in a Turkish bathhouse and the guy had me tied up in a knot then asked me,

"You are American? Your name is George? Like George Bush! Do you like George Bush? Are you like George Bush?"

Seeing how he had me in a guillotine/arm bar what could I say? I was like of course not. Then he was like, "I like you George" and proceeded to knead, pound the crap out of me (it's a Turkish massage).

However, I always try to be on my best behavior and treat everyone with respect. I am representing my country after all. I get a lot of good vibes from people and I am very helpful. They always seem so surprised when I tell them I am American, but it does help to change minds. That's soft power for you I guess.

Common sense, courtesy and awareness will serve you well.

Enjoy your travels!
 
Definitely something to think about and be aware of. Thanks for all the input guys. And please, no more Turkish bathhouse stories...lol
 
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