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Airlines to Military?
- Thread starter 737driver
- Start date
Thanks for the info and no I am not a US citizen but I can still go back and get my citizenship, I reckon it would take approximately 2 years and at least that to get my degree. So yeah time is running out. I left college and started flying when I was 19.
Europe is one of the few places in the world where they let guys with less than 200 hours (in some cases) fly 737s if you beleive that. Its an excellent job, great airplane and good money but I'd love to give the military a shot.
PS I know military flying would be a lot more hard work ie more paperwork,duty hours,briefings,debriefings etc but it seems to have its perks too.
Thanks again
Europe is one of the few places in the world where they let guys with less than 200 hours (in some cases) fly 737s if you beleive that. Its an excellent job, great airplane and good money but I'd love to give the military a shot.
PS I know military flying would be a lot more hard work ie more paperwork,duty hours,briefings,debriefings etc but it seems to have its perks too.
Thanks again
You, Brett...
You could go from flying this:
to this baby:
P.S. how the hell do you make these pics smaller?
Remind me to never fly on this airline. Ever.
Which airline does this? I'd have to see it to believe it. Here's my uninformed understanding about the process:
- at minimum 200 hours, take JAA tests for Commercial License.
- From there, obtain Multi-Eng, Inst., and Multi-Crew. How you can do that in 200 hours (or, according to you, less) is a mystery to me.
The only thing I can find in my hasty google that mentions a 200 hr min is Ryanair, which offers a program for cadets if you have all the above. You go through many weeks of training, do some circuits in the 737, then do line training, which sounds like actual commercial flights. So, no Ryanair for me when I'm in Europe.
Irish citizens can join the British military but it appears that you have to be at least a dual citizen to fly in the Royal Navy. A lot better chance than the US military for the OP though. Here is some info:
RAF:
http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/istherafforme/nationalityandresidency.cfm
http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/istherafforme/educationalrequirements.cfm
RN:
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/conWebDoc.979
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/conWebDoc.979
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.6249
I see your argument, but I contest that the ~200hrs I had when I first stepped into a P-3 was a far more intensive training than a typical civilian with ~200hrs of experience. Almost none of it was just crusing around. As a P-3 A/C commander you'll have far fewer hours than a similary sized platform's A/C commander would, but that's the nature of the buisness. But again, if you're not flying a mission, you're either doing a pilot trainer or you're doing "Dedicated Field Work", doing multiple touch and goes, approaches, and departures and all kinds of crazy fields - more valuable than takeiing off from one point, set the auto pilot, then landing at another point.
Your comparison to a CRJ is apt, I'd say. Those guys usually don't have a lot of hours (as I understand it) and those that do still aren't experienced, they've just sat in the seat a lot while the plane goes from point A to point B.
Very different worlds.
737driver,
I fly for an airline (B-717 now with B-727 & DC-10s in the past) and I've flown as a P-3 NFO.
There is no way the average civilian pilot with 200 hours should be put in the right seat of a 737 with 100+ pax. There is also no way most civilian trained pilots with 500 hours should be put in the right seat of a regional jet. I won't let my 12 year old daughter fly in RJs for this very reason and you'll never see me flying as a pax in one either.
It was bad enough "flight instructing" 500-1000 hour civilian trained First Officers in the right seat of a Twin Otter when I was a Captain flying Grand Canyon tours. My friends that went on to regionals and are now Captains there tell me it's worst baby sitting them in RJ right seats. But you know, we had a few former military helo guys at Scenic with very little fixed wing time that all did great.
Many of the foreign airlines that do your type of program train their pilots in the U.S. because of the lower training cost here. I've seen the programs at Comair Academy (now has a new name), at Bakersfield, in the Phoenix area and in Florida. The training is no where close to what military pilots go through and there is no way a 200 hour civilian pilot has acquired the skills of a 200 hour military pilot. Further, to use your P-3 example, 90% of the time when it is anything other than a dedicated pilot training flight, there are at least 3 pilots on board with the other 2 having more experience. If the new guy can't handle it, there is a guy standing by to take the seat. Not so in the civilian world and I know many RJ Captains that say they are basically flying "single pilot".
I also disagree with your contention that flying a 737 is the same as flying a RJ. I know the 717 is a lot harder to fly than the 727 was and the DC-10 probably the easiest of the 3. If you try landing a 717 like a 727, you're going to damage the plane and probably crash.
I fly for an airline (B-717 now with B-727 & DC-10s in the past) and I've flown as a P-3 NFO.
There is no way the average civilian pilot with 200 hours should be put in the right seat of a 737 with 100+ pax. There is also no way most civilian trained pilots with 500 hours should be put in the right seat of a regional jet. I won't let my 12 year old daughter fly in RJs for this very reason and you'll never see me flying as a pax in one either.
It was bad enough "flight instructing" 500-1000 hour civilian trained First Officers in the right seat of a Twin Otter when I was a Captain flying Grand Canyon tours. My friends that went on to regionals and are now Captains there tell me it's worst baby sitting them in RJ right seats. But you know, we had a few former military helo guys at Scenic with very little fixed wing time that all did great.
Many of the foreign airlines that do your type of program train their pilots in the U.S. because of the lower training cost here. I've seen the programs at Comair Academy (now has a new name), at Bakersfield, in the Phoenix area and in Florida. The training is no where close to what military pilots go through and there is no way a 200 hour civilian pilot has acquired the skills of a 200 hour military pilot. Further, to use your P-3 example, 90% of the time when it is anything other than a dedicated pilot training flight, there are at least 3 pilots on board with the other 2 having more experience. If the new guy can't handle it, there is a guy standing by to take the seat. Not so in the civilian world and I know many RJ Captains that say they are basically flying "single pilot".
I also disagree with your contention that flying a 737 is the same as flying a RJ. I know the 717 is a lot harder to fly than the 727 was and the DC-10 probably the easiest of the 3. If you try landing a 717 like a 727, you're going to damage the plane and probably crash.
I've trained a LOT of "foreign" pilots over the years --- most of 'em are shit. They memorize ... they don't "fly".
Classic exceptions to the rule: the Brits, the Aussies, NZlander's, SAfricans, and used to be -- the Luftwaffe, a.k.a. Lufthansa
-- but not so much anymore for Lufthansa ... Rudel, Moelders, Galland, Hartmann, Marseille, et'al are long gone ... they'd be rollin' in their graves w/ the current lot.
The rest -- even JAL -- are 80%+ pure shit.
Believe it.
Classic exceptions to the rule: the Brits, the Aussies, NZlander's, SAfricans, and used to be -- the Luftwaffe, a.k.a. Lufthansa
-- but not so much anymore for Lufthansa ... Rudel, Moelders, Galland, Hartmann, Marseille, et'al are long gone ... they'd be rollin' in their graves w/ the current lot.The rest -- even JAL -- are 80%+ pure shit.
Believe it.
Far be it for me to question one so wise. But "pure shit"? That really doesn't make sense to me. I mean seriously, can shit be pure? Doesn't that go against the very nature of shit?
Please enlighten me!
Nope, I do not believe that seeing that ICAO sort of has a little bit more stringent requirements(200 hours exactly). Noone in their right mind would let a guy with that little experience fly a 737 (as the captain)
OK....now reality has set in.....I should actually be scared.