Pilot's gun discharges in flight

[wink]

I am not even posting links to news articles, they are short on facts for good reason. A US Airways pilot part of the Federal Flight Deck Officer's program (TSA/FAM trained and federally deputized armed pilots) inadvertently discharged his weapon in flight. I am going to lay down some rules for this thread, which may lock very soon anyway. The FFDO program is largely classified. The TSA has classified the number of FFDOs, training, method of carry and transport along with tactics and the identity of the deputized FFDOs. Those details are classified as For Law Enforcement Only or Sensitive Security Information. I think we all know it as simply good operational security to keep many of those details from potential terrorists. So, post away if you find wiggle room there, but the thread will be locked if there is too much speculation or any of the above sensitive details are touched upon.

 

[FLYTPAY]

I know a story of a recent CAG who discharged his 9mm into a ready room chair narrowly missing someone sitting next to it before his combat flight....needless to say, said combat flight did not occur, chari was awarded Purple Heart and said CAG requalled with 9mm....a$$clownery involved in both incidents.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Got a buddy who's call sign is "Shooter" or "Sniper" or something along those lines. Opening days of OIF, he's walking out to his MH-53E and somehow manages to have a negligent discharge on the flight deck of the Amphib he was on. His response "my bad."

 

[A4sForever]

The news of this is just the kind of negative PR that will be run with by those who are either ignorant or agenda-driven and DO NOT want pilots in the cockpit who are legal, trained, and armed ....

It was hard enough just getting the program we have through the airline, bureaucracy and politicians ... don't know how this incident happened (obviously), but this stuff we don't need.

The last, best line of defense of the commercial airliner resides on the bow end of the cockpit door.

 

[nittany03]

Based on the stories I've heard, several negligent discharges with the M11 could easily be avoided if people had used that nice big decocking lever for its designed purpose instead of trying to thumb the hammer down. DUH.

/SIG owner

 

[wink]

The news of this is just the kind of negative PR that will be run with by those who are either ignorant or agenda-driven and DO NOT want pilots in the cockpit who are legal, trained, and armed ....

It was hard enough just getting the program we have through the airline, bureaucracy and politicians ... don't know how this incident happened (obviously), but this stuff we don't need.

The last, best line of defense of the commercial airliner resides on the bow end of the cockpit door.

There is already a thread on this incident on The Democratic Underground. Not that they matter. Some early posts were reasonable. But it is just another source of bad press. And likely bad info.

 

[wink]

Based on the stories I've heard, several negligent discharges with the M11 could easily be avoided if people had used that nice big decocking lever for its designed purpose instead of trying to thumb the hammer down. DUH.

/SIG owner

As a long time SIG owner I can say that I am practically afraid of touching the hammer, having used the decocker safely for thousands of rounds. Can anyone say "training?"

 

[scoober78]

Love 'em or hate 'em...you can't deny the simplicity.

 

[Single Seat]

Our Airwing wasn't allowed to even put the magazine in for this very reason. Carried the M11 and two mags, all separate. Some people forget the "always treat a gun like it's loaded" rule. Why would you even chamber a round?

 

[wink]

Why would you even chamber a round?

Because it is useless without a bang maker in the pipe. If you are going to carry a gun carry like you mean it. I suppose your CAG thought you guys would load 'em up after you punched out, when you needed it. And how are you going to load it with a broken arm or shattered hand? Even if the mag was in, you still could not rack the slide to get it into action (there are techniques for that but not taught to aircrew). It is all about training. Train the guys and you won't be killing ready room chairs.

 

[A4sForever]

...It is all about training. Train the guys and you won't be killing ready room chairs.

Damn straight.

And for the record, some of the WORST gun handling and safety procedures I've ever seen resided in the military, the "range" notwithstanding.

It's the same as Aviation -- you train how you fight and you'll fight how you train.

 

[Single Seat]

Because it is useless without a bang maker in the pipe. If you are going to carry a gun carry like you mean it. I suppose your CAG thought you guys would load 'em up after you punched out, when you needed it. And how are you going to load it with a broken arm or shattered hand? Even if the mag was in, you still could not rack the slide to get it into action (there are techniques for that but not taught to aircrew). It is all about training. Train the guys and you won't be killing ready room chairs.

Good points, but there aren't to many places we're flying over as of late that you won't have plenty of time to get situated. Never mind that getting yourself into a fire fight with a 9mm is just a bad idea.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Never mind that getting yourself into a fire fight with a 9mm is just a bad idea.

Love or hate the 9mm, I'd much rather have that if I have to ditch than just my knife, etc. And if I have ditched, lord knows I'm not gonna be "getting" myself into a firefight.


I personally think it's retarded to not have your gun ready. Like wink said, it's pretty pointless to carry a weapon if it's not ready to point and shoot.

 

[A4sForever]

Don't be afraid to touch the hammer, my son -- train for it, instead. There's nothing to fear but fear itself.

Most of you guys weren't carrying/packin' when the SA Auto was the name of the game -- and it still is in many ways. Powerful, slim, quick to get into action ... but you gotta train with it ... train with it a lot. A SA Auto is not something you can pick up and run with like a pair of scissors -- you have got to have the manual of arms down pat and practice for both "normal" and "not-so-normal" scenarios ... a "cocked & locked" SA Auto is still probably the fastest semi to get into action.

Personally, I still prefer the SA Auto over the Euro-trash derivative DA/SA or DAO's ... first off, it's a heck of a lot better lookin'. BUT I've gotten "soft" as the years go by and I now seldom "touch" a hammer, like most of you. But it's not because of "fear" ... it's because I'm old.

Com'on now ... admit it: she's "pretty", isn't she???

 

[Single Seat]

Good points, and was always a topic of discussion. Why carry a 9mm? A .45 is such a better weapon.

Advantage with the Sig's (M11) is that it's got a floating firing pin. It won't (shouldn't) discharge if you whack the hammer with a round in the chamber.