The break

[Punk]

I am confused about the talk of mishaps and stuff. Is the break inherently dangerous?

No, the break is not inherently dangerous. The Navy has started throwing airspeed restrictions on the break mostly because of FLE issues. Afterall, why take a 6 G hit to the airframe when a 4 G hit will accomplish the very same thing.

There's ZERO reason to stay above cornering airspeed in the break. Like HooverPilot has said, its purpose is to slow you down so that can dirty up. Yeah, I understand that the Hornet can bleed like a mother (60 knots/sec or something), but that doesn't mean you need to max perform the jet in the break.

Some jet's are inherently unstable, but don't use that argument here, cause its not gonna work. Afterall, you're just a voting member in the Hornet. Plus, the Hornet will fly just fine with no airspeed indicating (superior one-circle fighter, but I guess you knew that).

 

[Brett327]

Is the break inherently dangerous?

In a word, no. What you've witnessed here is a simple difference of opinion. One side from a single, inexperienced, over-enthusiastic first tour JO, the other from a handfull of more seasoned aviators from a variety of platforms. You do the math. If he thinks that a slower break is dangerous, then God bless. His opinion is not replicated in the Naval Aviation community at large. I'm not here to mallign the guy. He is entitled to his opinion, it just happens to be wrong.

Brett

 

[Screamtruth]

In a word, no. What you've witnessed here is a simple difference of opinion. One side from a single, inexperienced, over-enthusiastic first tour JO, the other from a handfull of more seasoned aviators from a variety of platforms. You do the math. If he thinks that a slower break is dangerous, then God bless. His opinion is not replicated in the Naval Aviation community at large. I'm not here to mallign the guy. He is entitled to his opinion, it just happens to be wrong.

Brett

Got it. Ok, one more......once you break off and you are in the turn, is it a constant turn to the approach, like flying a DME arc? Or, is it like any approach pattern, i.e. oval, race track type? You know, downwind, then base, then final. With my limited fllying experience, this is really how I do it, unless being vectored in controlled airspace.

 

[nittany03]

Got it. Ok, one more......once you break off and you are in the turn, is it a constant turn to the approach, like flying a DME arc? Or, is it like any approach pattern, i.e. oval, race track type? You know, downwind, then base, then final. With my limited fllying experience, this is really how I do it, unless being vectored in controlled airspace.

Your goal is to fly a 27-30 AOB turn which will roll you out on centerline for the carrier box or runway. Depending on winds you can shallow your turn or play your abeam distance to come to a good "start." This is a centered (preferably slightly high) ball, 15-18 second final. There is no "base leg" as it is one continuous turn from downwind to final. The idea (at my field at least) is to start about 300fpm from the 180 and slowly increase it to 450fpm at the 90 (degrees from runway heading that is) and 7-800fpm on final which will (ideally) give you a 3 degree glideslope.

Not sure what you mean by is it an 'arc' or a 'racetrack.' It is definitely a continuous turn vice a box pattern.

 

[Brett327]

Got it. Ok, one more......once you break off and you are in the turn, is it a constant turn to the approach, like flying a DME arc? Or, is it like any approach pattern, i.e. oval, race track type? You know, downwind, then base, then final. With my limited fllying experience, this is really how I do it, unless being vectored in controlled airspace.

Nope it's just an expeditious way of entering the traffic pattern, which in the Navy is more like an oval (i.e. one continuous turn from downwind to final), than the box pattern that you're used to flying as a civilian.

Brett

 

[FLY_USMC]

I personally have no opinion, just wanted to let everyone know I'm reading this thread because I think the subtle digs everyone keeps throwing out are hilarious. You all obviously(I'm meaning everyone) talked via pm trying to clear it up, yet you all still insist on "I may be wrong, but you're MORE wrong" HAHAH.

 

[Brett327]

I personally have no opinion, just wanted to let everyone know I'm reading this thread because I think the subtle digs everyone keeps throwing out are hilarious. You all obviously(I'm meaning everyone) talked via pm trying to clear it up, yet you all still insist on "I may be wrong, but you're MORE wrong" HAHAH.

Just so you feel better, I'm not wrong. PM is good, but when people press a bad point, then it's game on.

Brett

 

[Pags]

Got it. Ok, one more......once you break off and you are in the turn, is it a constant turn to the approach, like flying a DME arc? Or, is it like any approach pattern, i.e. oval, race track type? You know, downwind, then base, then final. With my limited fllying experience, this is really how I do it, unless being vectored in controlled airspace.

For those of you who are having trouble visualizing the pattern, here ya go:

 

[chiplee]

Perhaps you're not familiar w/ what a HAZREP is for. Paraphrased, to prevent MISHAPS. More AW smiles...

my bad, thought it was to identify hazards

 

[chiplee]

Try another airwing. In ours, VAW took top hook for multiple line periods and the cruise. Takes more than just 1 hotshot per squadron.

we took on average 40% of the available spots, that's not one hotshot, but ok.

 

[A4sForever]

BTW ..... in case none of you have noticed .... this has "morphed" into an excellent discussion of .... FLYYING ..... as in "stuff that counts" .... instead of the usual AW drivel about video games, what do I use to clear up my pimples, who has the baddest car and, of course, who has the largest penis on AW ??? ....

.... and of course, the answer to that is: none of you. ) once again)

 

[chiplee]

Do I smell a innacuracy...

Mishaps in the break...hmmm... I immediately can think of two I know of personally. VF-213 with Wally and Stork in the cockpit South of Singapore and a VF-211 jet that went into the landfill at NKX while I was an FRS instructor in VF-101 Det Miramar.

And don't be a d!ck. You're much too new for that around here...and no one appreciates the attitude.

You will get banned.

Cheers,
G (AW smiles...of course)...

'

A: thanks for helping develop my point

B: got it, being a d!ck is reserved for the "seasoned" members and moderators. Glad you clarified because in the forums I frequent, and moderate, we apply a universal standard to all members. And when warranted, which in this case is most certainly is not, we take warnings of this sort to PM like a good little, "MATURE" keeper of the peace would.

 

[Screamtruth]

Not sure what you mean by is it an 'arc' or a 'racetrack.' It is definitely a continuous turn vice a box pattern.

At the local ANG base here, I think the f-16's fly some type of DME arc. My Dad flies for Continental, and he said that there are a few airports that still use a DME arc, usually 10 or 12 DME, from the NDB on the airport. At Ellington AFB here, I think it is a 12 DME or something like that. As for the racetrack, I meant box pattern, oops. Thanks for the input; this thread is interesting to me, and educational on how you all fly.

Respect,
The Scream

 

[chiplee]

the props require MUCH MORE piloting/skill than a jet.

nice

 

[squeeze]

At Ellington AFB here, I think it is a 12 DME or something like that. As for the racetrack, I meant box pattern, oops. Thanks for the input; this thread is interesting to me, and educational on how you all fly.

Respect,
The Scream

That's an instrument approach that uses larger DME arcs like that. Trust me, Ellington has a tower pattern. Not only did I grow up ~3 miles from the field, I've personally taken a jet into there for the airshow. It has a break that, like most airforce fields, is ridiculously high (but easily circumvented by requesting the carrier, which they dont know, so they approve).