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Help Wanted / Jobs Thread

llnick2001

it’s just malfeasance for malfeasance’s sake
pilot
I don’t have a good handle on what the Judiciary does.

We have the JS scale. Spoiler alert, it's GS scale, but it goes to 18 instead of stopping at 15. I assume, but don't know, that the extra three steps are what we have instead of SES because we already have a bunch of judges running around who all do their own thing within their chambers anyway.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
And pay banding systems are still tied to the GS system. You'll see them on many USAJobs postings such as NM, NH, DP, etc. The FAA has their own pay bands that I think are alphabetical. Pay band and different systems provide a way for the agency to evaluate and recognize employee performance. For instance, in my pay system, I have to submit a twice annual FITREP like report that then gets ranked against my peers to determine payout. High performers see returns in more rapidly increasing pay and bonuses. This also allows agencies to move people up within the GS step system more rapidly than the traditional GS step increase timeframe of 1 step every three years. Although jobs can fit within bands there are often other controls. For instance, DP-05 is a pay scale that covers the 14-15 pay scale. But there's often a "control point" that caps the pay at 14 for roles that don't rate the 15 pay due to org structure, agency high grade restrictions, etc.
Which highlights how important it is to advocate for the highest Step you can prior to your final offer and appointment. I had a lot of help from a buddy that got me Step 5 vs the initial offer of Step 1. There is a protocol and wording counts. I was clueless going into the process. I was grateful for the help.

AF GS's usually qualify for a "performance based" annual bonus/payout. $3-5K. No ranking or peer competiiveness - solely individual based. Its like a mini "NAM" write up. I was not aware of this going into the role - but it was a nice surprise. Not something you count on obviously, but I was pleased with the cash award.

I exist on a specially tailored payscale for GS12 - 15 - a number of occupations are grouped together. I am primarily an "Aircraft Operator". Notice the multitude of agencies this payscale covers. You can fly a surveillance aircraft as a non agent for DOJ as a GS-15 and make north of $170K.

32366
 
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nodropinufaka

Well-Known Member
Does anyone have an example of a SES managing a flag officer? I’d be interested in learning more of that setup.

All the SES I’ve interacted with were the Jdirs at CCMD and they were flag equivalent but never had a flag under them.

maybe at a systems command?
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Does anyone have an example of a SES managing a flag officer? I’d be interested in learning more of that setup.

All the SES I’ve interacted with were the Jdirs at CCMD and they were flag equivalent but never had a flag under them.

maybe at a systems command?
Does a JDir not get his bosses job if something happens?

I'd assume the deputy commanders of Syscoms are a good example. I also know of one flag command that will soon be led by an SES in lieu of a GOFO.

Not exactly the same but GSs can hold command authority. For instance if a Civilian is running a program office. In that case, they're the Boss.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
We have the JS scale. Spoiler alert, it's GS scale, but it goes to 18 instead of stopping at 15. I assume, but don't know, that the extra three steps are what we have instead of SES because we already have a bunch of judges running around who all do their own thing within their chambers anyway.

Before the introduction of the civilian Senior Executive Service in 1978 the GS pay scale had grades above 15, GS-16 to GS-18, who were called 'Supergrades' and were the rough equivalent of SES's today. My grandfather retired as a GS-18 with the Department of Treasury in '78.

Does anyone have an example of a SES managing a flag officer? I’d be interested in learning more of that setup.

It is actually pretty common at Intelligence Agencies, where several have or have had civilian directors, in addition to many civilian directorate bosses, with flag and general officers working for them.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Before the introduction of the civilian Senior Executive Service in 1978 the GS pay scale had grades above 15, GS-16 to GS-18, who were called 'Supergrades' and were the rough equivalent of SES's today. My grandfather retired as a GS-18 with the Department of Treasury in '78.



It is actually pretty common at Intelligence Agencies, where several have or have had civilian directors, in addition to many civilian directorate bosses, with flag and general officers working for them.
There are also Senior Scientific Technical Manager roles for higher level jobs that aren't suited for an SES. I've seen it used for positions that are in charge of large technical orgs that have 15s reporting to them.
 

nodropinufaka

Well-Known Member
It is actually pretty common at Intelligence Agencies, where several have or have had civilian directors, in addition to many civilian directorate bosses, with flag and general officers working for them.

I think most of those are political appointees. CIA def is.

DISL led directorate with a GOFO under them in the IC? Maybe NGA? NRO is probably a good example.

I will go search on google and see what shows up.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I worked with a -12 that was a Step 0. He would joke that they made the Step just for him. Of course not entirely true, but it was an amusing story when I did his first Performance Evaluation.
 

SELRES_AMDO

Well-Known Member
Government civilian jobs are based on working 2080 hours in a given year or 80 hours per pay period. Technically, it is a violation of federal law for the government to accept services from someone that is not being paid for it. So tell your boss your leaving at the end of the day and to not call you until you're on the clock the next day.

$170K for a 9-5 job with a pension isn't a bad gig if you can get it. Hell, even GS-13 to GS-14 work where you're getting $120K - $150K for 40 hours a week is sought after.

Once you get past a certain pay grade, you can't receive true overtime which is 1.5 x your hourly rate because it will exceed what a GS-15 step 10 makes. I think around GS-13 is when you run into this problem. So most commands get around this by paying your comp time which is just like vacation time but it will pay out at your hourly rate after one year. You also can't accrue more comp time than what a GS-15 step 10 makes in a pay period. So there is a limit on how much hours you can charge. So just remember, for 99% of the jobs that GS-15 is the max. And many can make the argument that GS-15 step 10 is the better deal than SES.

I was never a fan of people comparing a GS pay grade to an equivalent military rank. GS pay is based on a skill set and a somewhat loose comparison to the private sector equivalent. It is not a rank and GS jobs only do what is in their PD.
 
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Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I think most of those are political appointees. CIA def is.

No, they aren't. With the exception of the CIA the directors for the larger intelligence agencies are almost always either civilian intelligence professionals or military General/Flag officers with significant intelligence experience.

DISL led directorate with a GOFO under them in the IC? Maybe NGA? NRO is probably a good example.

Sort of, but there are more examples. Just to clarify, DISL and SES are two separate things with DISL's being technical experts (think CWO or LDO's but with multiple masters or a PhD along with the experience) and SES's being more general leaders. DISL's are often Chief Scientists or technical advisors to even more senior folks with a few just being very senior analysts or specialists. DISL's are also specific to the DoD with some other departments having equivalents and some not.

Almost every DISL's or the equivalent I've known loved their jobs as they usually had very little, if any, managerial/leadership responsibilities and were often treated a bit like CWO4/5's when it came to their expertise in the field along with no one really questioning just what the hell they were doing most of the time. To get there though most had 30+ years in their field along with a small pile of degrees and a good rep to boot.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Government civilian jobs are based on working 2080 hours in a given year or 80 hours per pay period. Technically, it is a violation of federal law for the government to accept services from someone that is not being paid for it. So tell your boss your leaving at the end of the day and to not call you until you're on the clock the next day.

$170K for a 9-5 job with a pension isn't a bad gig if you can get it. Hell, even GS-13 to GS-14 work where you're getting $120K - $150K for 40 hours a week is sought after.

Once you get past a certain pay grade, you can't receive true overtime which is 1.5 x your hourly rate because it will exceed what a GS-15 step 10 makes. I think around GS-13 is when you run into this problem. So most commands get around this by paying your comp time which is just like vacation time but it will pay out at your hourly rate after one year. You also can't accrue more comp time than what a GS-15 step 10 makes in a pay period. So there is a limit on how much hours you can charge. So just remember, for 99% of the jobs that GS-15 is the max. And many can make the argument that GS-15 step 10 is the better deal than SES.

I was never a fan of people comparing a GS pay grade to an equivalent military rank. GS pay is based on a skill set and a somewhat loose comparison to the private sector equivalent. It is not a rank and GS jobs only do what is in their PD.
We just hired a 63 year old former AA widebody CA as a GS-12. I've met a GS-15 who is still working full time in his mid 70's (retired O-6)...
 

nodropinufaka

Well-Known Member
No, they aren't. With the exception of the CIA the directors for the larger intelligence agencies are almost always either civilian intelligence professionals or military General/Flag officers with significant intelligence experience.



Sort of, but there are more examples. Just to clarify, DISL and SES are two separate things with DISL's being technical experts (think CWO or LDO's but with multiple masters or a PhD along with the experience) and SES's being more general leaders. DISL's are often Chief Scientists or technical advisors to even more senior folks with a few just being very senior analysts or specialists. DISL's are also specific to the DoD with some other departments having equivalents and some not.

Almost every DISL's or the equivalent I've known loved their jobs as they usually had very little, if any, managerial/leadership responsibilities and were often treated a bit like CWO4/5's when it came to their expertise in the field along with no one really questioning just what the hell they were doing most of the time. To get there though most had 30+ years in their field along with a small pile of degrees and a good rep to boot.
Interesting cause the last PACFLT N2 was a DISL and he ran the entire N2 directorate. Including signing all the fitreps for the officers under him.

He prob spent a lot of time managing them.
 

SELRES_AMDO

Well-Known Member
I've met a GS-15 who is still working full time in his mid 70's (retired O-6)...
I had two of those at my last job. Both retired O-6s. Everyone joked that they'd die at their desks because they were workaholics. Unfortunately, one did end up having a pretty serious stroke at work :(. The other retired shortly after.
 

nodropinufaka

Well-Known Member
We just hired a 63 year old former AA widebody CA as a GS-12. I've met a GS-15 who is still working full time in his mid 70's (retired O-6)...
I worked for one. Was a Vietnam vet. Retired Marine. Still works to this day.
Said he got nothing else to do and it keeps him young.
 
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