Women in the Marine Corps. Lowering Standards.

[Renegade One]

The point you missed [edited for brevity].

FlyBoyd: Wheelhouse post. Thanks so much for the time it took you to nug that in. Very informative...

WRT the BFO you had to attrite…she wouldn't have done well in Ready Room Seven either. Hard call…but probably the right one for Naval Aviation. That's why you got the medium bucks! Probably "better bucks" with the new career…yes?

Cheers, R1

 

[Gatordev]

Maybe I've misunderstood, but the way I've read this was that FlyBoyd's onwing attrited, but was not removed from training. She just was passed on to another squadron to start over. Something not uncommon within CNATRA (and even the FRS from time to time, although once you get the Wings, attrition becomes much harder since it requires a FNAEB).

 

[Spekkio]

The black, female Onwing I had struggled early on. Knowing what I described above, I got way into the weeds with her on study habits. She told me point blank that she wasn't comfortable studying with the other students. She actually was studying with some black students in an advanced squadron since there were no blacks in our squadron. I told her she was setting herself up for failure and I even cited the info I speak about in these posts. I tasked two of my prior Onwings to seek her out and study with her, be as available as possible, etc. She continued to struggle. The dudes I had sent her way said she refused their repeated efforts to help her. She attrited. Included in her paperwork was a statement from me laying out how I tried to help her. She obviously didn't play well with others but she still went to the other squadron. She was a female and black. Two strikes against her according to the historical data.

This sounds like BS excuse making to me. A part of being a grown up is sometimes doing something you're not comfortable doing because it's foreign to you. There are plenty of people who succeed as a racial minority within their organization. I suspect Dirk Nowizki didn't get so good at basketball by only playing with white kids in HS/College and Peyton Manning didn't get good at QB by only throwing to white WRs. Kind of extreme examples but isn't being 'uncomfortable' with working together with people of different skin color or gender at the hearts of the definitions of racism and sexism?

Somewhat related, I think her scare of 'putting herself out there' is more related to being female than being black. Some survey FBN was quoting stated that professional women have a more difficult time speaking up during meetings and social business events, and it generally adversely affects their upward mobility.

 

[FlyBoyd]

Maybe I've misunderstood, but the way I've read this was that FlyBoyd's onwing attrited, but was not removed from training. She just was passed on to another squadron to start over.

I'll default to yeahguy's memory on this one. I don't specifically remember if she made it so I didn't include that in my post. It was ten years and I don't know how many drinks ago.

@R1- better bucks indeed...FedEx + USN Retired pay > USN AD pay. I miss the people but not the babysitting. Strange thing is that when I pull out the bills from my wallet, they are different. They are crisper, a bigger denomination, and smell of scotch

 

[FlyBoyd]

This sounds like BS excuse making to me. A part of being a grown up is sometimes doing something you're not comfortable doing because it's foreign to you. There are plenty of people who succeed as a racial minority within their organization. I suspect Dirk Nowizki didn't get so good at basketball by only playing with white kids in HS/College and Peyton Manning didn't get good at QB by only throwing to white WRs. Kind of extreme examples but isn't being 'uncomfortable' with working together with people of different skin color or gender at the hearts of the definitions of racism and sexism?

Somewhat related, I think her scare of 'putting herself out there' is more related to being female than being black. Some survey FBN was quoting stated that professional women have a more difficult time speaking up during meetings and social business events, and it generally adversely affects their upward mobility.

I also stated she obviously didn't play well with others. Same thing you said above, just less words.

 

[Spekkio]

Yea, I just don't like the fact that she was pinning it on being a racial/gender minority, and no one else understands because she's the only person in the world who found herself having to work with members of the opposite sex or a different race.

 

[BackOrdered]

Yea, I just don't like the fact that she was pinning it on being a racial/gender minority, and no one else understands because she's the only person in the world who found herself having to work with members of the opposite sex or a different race.

I second this, if I operated like that, I wouldn't have finished anything after high school.

 

[Renegade One]

I'll default to yeahguy's memory on this one. I don't specifically remember if she made it so I didn't include that in my post. It was ten years and I don't know how many drinks ago.

@R1- better bucks indeed...FedEx + USN Retired pay > USN AD pay. I miss the people but not the babysitting. Strange thing is that when I pull out the bills from my wallet, they are different. They are crisper, a bigger denomination, and smell of scotch

Shit, man…ANOTHER "wheelhouse" post! "Where do we get such men?"

 

[BigBadBoJenkins]

Good posts FlyBoyd, thank you

 

[CommodoreMid]

Honestly can't speak to the race issue, but as a woman, I have yet to feel uncomfortable studying/hanging out with the dudes in my commands, from API to primary to 30 to now, you have to bond with the people in your time to get through. Every phase of training I have been in, especially dealing with study groups and all that, I have been the only woman on the majority of occasions. It didn't matter. We worked together, helped each other on the things we were weak on, and we all made it through whatever hurdle was there. I mean, how is picking a study group unique to the military? I've dealt with challenges and definitely some pain of being a minority in Naval Aviation, but doing well at my job hasn't been one of those related to my gender.

 

[BackOrdered]

Honestly can't speak to the race issue......

The race issue is what it is. If a white guy failed a training pipeline because there were too many minorities, he would be considered the problem. It's no different flipped the other way. God forbid in this case she ran a division that way.

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

If a white guy failed a training pipeline because there were too many minorities

Technically, in that case he'd be a minority.

 

[BackOrdered]

Technically, in that case he'd be a minority.

Better not tell him that!

 

[whitesoxnation]

As a white male, it is easy to find someone like you. If you are uncomfortable with someone, your choice of study partners is nearly limitless but they attrite at nearly 10%. What percentage are saved because they had a group to help them? What if they didn't have that group?

What ever happened to arcane methods of learning like opening a book, reading it, then memorizing what you need to know.

 

[MIDNJAC]

@ FlyBoyd, was this student you speak of in the early/mid '08 timeframe? If so, I have a faint recollection.