As our collective NAE culture has consistently implied that as a P-3 guy I'm generally inferior to Tacair, I tend to be hesitant to make broad sweeps outside my personal experience because I feel that whatever small disparity of talent in MPRA is not correctly reflected in our culture, I still have no problem saying that the TAOs on my carrier were the biggest dopes I've ever seen in the navy and no kidding embarrassed me as an officer, aviator, college graduate, taxpayer, etc. They were morons and incapable of the most basic role in a wartime scenario, from firsthand observation.
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Why are you Leaving?
- Thread starter B.D. Drummond
- Start date
How often is the CVN really holding Charlie? In a conflict, I've got to think the answer is, never...for good reason,
I am surprised. I don't recall that being the case back in the day. I personally knew a couple guys that got TAO orders and they were sharp. Guys I saw on the watch seem competent enough. I wonder how it is the job evolved to the point that sub par players get those orders.
One of my former DHs and now PXO (who did a pre DH job in Millington) explained to me that occurs because TAO is a collateral job for SWOs, so you don't send a rockstar LT to compete with SWO LTJGs (had a SWO friend who stood CVN TAO as a second tour LTJG) who do it as a watch and then go run a separate division. Hard to break out there. Not speaking from first hand experience, since I'm on shore duty nor do I know anyone personally who has done the TAO gig, so I can't even glean anecdotally, but just what he relayed to me when giving me advice on boat jobs.
I'm in the same 'boat'- never been on a CVN. Curious- out of Shooters, TAOs, and Reactor Dept, who has the monopoly on LT EPs on the bird farm?
Yep- if the shooters and TAOs are already terminal LTs, why not hook up the Reactor Dept guys? From what I've heard (a couple data points) life is good for the Nukes.
Clarification: TAO isn't a collateral. It's a watch standing qualification akin to PPC, LVL III, etc.
Typically, the guys who don't call it a "bird farm."
Yep, I do. Best TAO I served with was a METOC. A close second was a SWO (on a CG), and third best was a Prowler NFO. Worst TAO by far that I ever saw was also a Prowler NFO. P-3 guys were average IMO. This doesn't mean that all METOCs should stand the watch or that all Prowler guys are great (or suck), or that all P-3 guys would be just average TAOs.
To your first reason, having a better understanding of physics and aerodynamics in a changing enviornment does not give someone more "skin in the game". If anything, it would make them more qualified. To your second, I think you clearly distrust other naval officers that are not of the same cloth as you. And that's fine, but I'd rather you just say it and own it rather than coming up with some other bullshit reasons. To say that an aviator has more to lose than anyone else is a bit hyperbolic don't you think?
And that is the point I'm trying to make. Could and should are two separate questions. I'm not a proponent of other designators being shooters. But I'm confident they could with the proper training.
You're not too far off. I DO trust winged aviators more than I trust people of other designators. And I'm not ashamed to admit it. Those wings on the other person's chest means that I know (mostly) what they went through to obtain them. I'm not a warrant/LDO so my knowledge of them and their background is limited to my (mostly very favorable) interactions with them in a 16.5 year career including a fully painful disassociated sea tour. Do I favor my own when making assumptions? Yes. Don't we all?
I'd argue many of us on the helo side each have our own story (or book of stories) on Shoe reindeer games that makes us inherently mistrust them over an aviator. Are all SWOs like that? Of course not, and I'm guessing Steve was an above average OOD, based on what I know of him personally. But I'm guessing that's where Phrog is coming from.
For the record, I've also had some window licker LSOs (fellow helo pilots), so I understand not everything is perfect in our dysfunctional family that is Naval Aviation.
We had four TAOs on my last deployment and they ran the entire spectrum. The salty LDO was slow to jump to conclusions and made good decisions even when something was outside of his knowledge box. Two of them were just middle of the road. The fourth one was a piece of work. I felt embarrassed to be associated with the ship when he was on satcom or sipr chat because he had such a shit attitude and he couldn't keep his cool under the slightest pressure. I would often offer to help him with radios or chat just so the guys on the other end didn't think we were *all* assholes.
Most (not all, but most) of the OODs I've seen can't be trusted. They're more concerned about if the captain will yell at them than they are with anything happening on the helo deck. Unless, God forbid, the captain or TAO ask anything about what the helo is doing and then you can expect a gigantic cluster fuck to ensue thereafter.
It's nice that you get to run the show on the small decks, but I prefer the big decks because they have one goal in mind: get all their aircraft back. I've had my fair share of being stuck in the D, but the airboss never forgot about me (at least not for too long, haha). The small boy SWOs will forget about you. They will turn into a storm when you tell them not to. They will take occasionally take 45-60 minutes trying to set flight quarters even when your land time was on their POD. I wish I were joking, that's just how it is.
Most (not all, but most) of the OODs I've seen can't be trusted. They're more concerned about if the captain will yell at them than they are with anything happening on the helo deck. Unless, God forbid, the captain or TAO ask anything about what the helo is doing and then you can expect a gigantic cluster fuck to ensue thereafter.
It's nice that you get to run the show on the small decks, but I prefer the big decks because they have one goal in mind: get all their aircraft back. I've had my fair share of being stuck in the D, but the airboss never forgot about me (at least not for too long, haha). The small boy SWOs will forget about you. They will turn into a storm when you tell them not to. They will take occasionally take 45-60 minutes trying to set flight quarters even when your land time was on their POD. I wish I were joking, that's just how it is.