USMC Executive Flight Detachment (HMX-1 and Presidential Helo)

[phrogpilot73]

Is there a reason that the 53 was not selected. It seems that the American made -53 would be plenty big enough and have a proven track record to be competitive. Does anyone know if it was even considered?

I would guess it wasn't even considered. WAY overpowered for what they need. Not to mention rotor wash would destroy the south lawn. As the president tours hurricane damaged areas, he causes more damage from the rotor wash... Etc...

"American Made" is a bit misleading. There are a lot of subcontractors that are from overseas. The prime integrator just happens to be in America.

If the Government gives Airbus the contract for the new Air Force One, I'll fucking vomit.

Did you read the article? Airbus backed out. It's tough to award a contract to someone who's not even in the competition.

 

[Clux4]

Either the Leatherneck or the Marine Corps Gazette has a length article this month on Marine 1.

 

[2ndGen]

Did you read the article? Airbus backed out. It's tough to award a contract to someone who's not even in the competition.

I did Sir, It just really gets me that the first invite for our presidents aircraft is a european manufacturer. I would think that the first people to get the shot would be Boeing, and whats wrong with the current 747?

 

[phrogpilot73]

I did Sir, It just really gets me that the first invite for our presidents aircraft is a european manufacturer. I would think that the first people to get the shot would be Boeing, and whats wrong with the current 747?

That's not how the contracting process works. The government puts out what are called "Requests for Proposal" or RFPs. Companies that are interested (doesn't matter if they're EU, US, or what) who think they can hit the governments wickets for requirements at a reasonable price send a proposal to the government. The government weighs the proposals and selects which contractor that they think is going to be more bang for the buck - and then award them the contract. The way I read the article was that either during or slightly after the RFP phase, EADS backed out.

A lot of the "creep" that's being seen with the VH-71 is that Sikorsky and Lockheed bid the contract. Sikorsky's bid was MUCH higher, since they have a history building executive transport - they knew that there would be more requirements levied once they were on contract (i.e. stuff you can't share with Joe Schmo until he's on contract) so their bid price was higher. Lockeed didn't realize this, and bid strictly based on what was in the RFP. Now they're over budget because of all the new requirements that they didn't know (from inexperience in bidding an executive transport) would exist. Sikorsky's was a more realistic proposal, Lockheed's was cheaper.

If we "invite" someone/give someone the first shot - that would be called a "sole source contract" and has to be defended vigorously.

What's wrong with the current 747? It's 29 years old I believe. And as much as it flies, I bet it would be approaching its service half-life.

 

[Flash]

I did Sir, It just really gets me that the first invite for our presidents aircraft is a european manufacturer. I would think that the first people to get the shot would be Boeing, and whats wrong with the current 747?

May the best plane win, simple as that. And just because it is American doesn't make it the best.

The two VC-25A's, which are the primary Air Force One's, were built off the 747-200 airframe and were introduced into service in 1990. Boeing stopped building the -200 in 1991 and many airlines have been retiring them due to their age and parts are getting harder to obtain. The projected replacement date is 2017, making the VC-25's close to 30 years old. It may be the 777 or 787 and not the 747, it appears Boeing is taking a second look at the new747-8.

http://www.flightglobal.com/article...possible-reassessment-of-747-8-programme.html

 

[2ndGen]

There are definitely some things that I did not know about the process! But why can't the government just buy a couple 747-xxx's and convert them? Or are the current VC-25s that different from the original airframes?

 

[Uncle Fester]

Well, for starters, it's not just a shiny 747 with some blue carpet. The VC-25s are extensively converted. So extensively they're barely even 747s any more...747-shaped, maybe.

Second, the 747-200B that the VC-25s were based on isn't in production any more. Like Flash just said. Building any more, or basing them on a 747-800, would mean a new contract, which is exactly what's being discussed.

Third, the gov't doesn't just buy airplanes and convert them anyhow. It's done by contractors, which is done under contract. Contract bidding has to be done by the numbers or it turns into a Babylonian goat-fuck. Hell, even when it is done by the numbers, it usually does.

 

[Clux4]

Not to take away from the seriousness of this thread but how is a Babylonian goat-fuck different from a regular goat-fuck. I thought it was funny!!

I did not realize the Presidential Fleet was that old. Now do the regular aircrafts with blue and white USA paint scheme have major modifications to them like Airforce One?

 

[Flash]

I did not realize the Presidential Fleet was that old. Now do the regular aircrafts with blue and white USA paint scheme have major modifications to them like Airforce One?

The aircraft of the 89th Wing, who fly the blue and white aircraft, have a variety of aircraft and I would assume all have various upgrades. Since all of them pull duty as VIP transports they probably have pretty good comms suites along with self-protection gear. As for specifics, I have no idea and it is classified anyways.

 

[scoolbubba]

HMX-1 might be waiting a little while longer for those shiny new helos...


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...ma-puts-new-presidential-helicopters-on-hold/

 

[Uncle Fester]

Cute. "Current helicopters are perfectly fine." Sure, older than the pilots who're flying them, but they still look shiny, so that's all that counts. I agree that the requirements creep has screwed up the program, but how about fixing the problem? We can't just keep putting off recapitalizing the force until "later". That's how we got in our current fix of F-15's falling out of the sky.

Your Democratic administration, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[Birdog8585]

Little visual representation of this discussion. (23 FEB 2009)

 

[mmx1]

Cute. "Current helicopters are perfectly fine." Sure, older than the pilots who're flying them, but they still look shiny, so that's all that counts. I agree that the requirements creep has screwed up the program, but how about fixing the problem? We can't just keep putting off recapitalizing the force until "later". That's how we got in our current fix of F-15's falling out of the sky.

Your Democratic administration, ladies and gentlemen.

McCain seemed to share the same sentiment. And from my understanding of it, the cost ballooning is related to the additional comm equipment requested for the second batch not present on our current fleet. The program's not just about "fixing a problem" as in the F-15 spars or airfame age but asking for new capabilities that may or may not be necessary - or affordable.

I would not be surprised to see the result be limiting the program to the Alpha model without the continuity of government comms requested for the second batch.

 

[S.O.B.]

I liked the President's response. The Presidential Helo program seems ridiculous: I don't see why we can't use the VH-60s to replace the UH-3s. I'm not a 100% certain but I've heard they're buying 30 EH-101s to replace 3 UH-3s .

 

[jamnww]

I liked the President's response. The Presidential Helo program seems ridiculous: I don't see why we can't use the VH-60s to replace the UH-3s. I'm not a 100% certain but I've heard they're buying 30 EH-101s to replace 3 UH-3s .

From my understanding they are replacing both the -3's and -60's but I could be wrong...