The Monster COD thread (homage to the C-2A Greyhound)

[kmac]

The CNO flew into Corpus for the day today and spoke to the wing at the base auditorium. One of the advanced squadron IPs asked him about plans to replace the C-2. He said that in a few years they would have to start thinking about what direction they want to go in. In other words, they have given no thought to replacing the C-2 yet. That should give you a pretty good idea how far down the line the COD replacement will be.

It was interesting how the CNO tapped around his various answers. I understand that on one level he's having to be political due to the job but I can't help to feel that being PC is more important than being straightforward. The question related to the COD replacement came from my buddy (who was in the same det when Bunk was OIC). You're correct in saying that the COD is far down the priority list, yet the CNO's answer talked about how important the COD is without actually saying what the timeframe for a replacement would be. He transitioned from answering the question to simply discussing how valuable the C-2 is. I'll be curious to hear the same question and answer session at Hook '09 in September.

 

[kmac]

Unless you can hang bomb racks on the C-2 or one goes into the drink full of VIP's due to aircraft malfuntion, not going to happen.

He also discussed the P-8 quite a bit. He talked about the value of the P-3 in the sub-hunting world and now feet dry over Afghanistan. I'm curious.... has a P-3 actually found a sub that wanted to be found? Hopefully the P-8 could do much better.

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

It was interesting how the CNO tapped around his various answers. I understand that on one level he's having to be political due to the job but I can't help to feel that being PC is more important than being straightforward. The question related to the COD replacement came from my buddy (who was in the same det when Bunk was OIC). You're correct in saying that the COD is far down the priority list, yet the CNO's answer talked about how important the COD is without actually saying what the timeframe for a replacement would be. He transitioned from answering the question to simply discussing how valuable the C-2 is. I'll be curious to hear the same question and answer session at Hook '09 in September.

Yes, he was very PC on the questions. Some to the point where it was annoying. If you don't want to answer the question just say you don't want to answer the question.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I'm curious.... has a P-3 actually found a sub that wanted to be found? Hopefully the P-8 could do much better.

One that wanted to be found - yes, easily.

One that did not want to be found - yes, but not so easily.

 

[phrogpilot73]

They probably wouldn't be spending the money transitioning them to the 8 bladed props if they were planning on replacing them in the near future.

If they were in the midst of replacing, I don't know, the CH-46E with the MV-22 then they wouldn't be upgrading to an electric utility pump, Blue Force Tracker, Sat Com capability, new titanium coated blades in the engines, new seats, upgrading the software in the wireless ICS, etc... Oh wait, they are. Sometimes its more about keeping a contractor's job in place.

 

[HeyJoe]

 

[Jim123]

Aircraft Improvements and Mods

If they were in the midst of replacing, I don't know, the CH-46E with the MV-22 then they wouldn't be upgrading to an electric utility pump, Blue Force Tracker, Sat Com capability, new titanium coated blades in the engines, new seats, upgrading the software in the wireless ICS, etc... Oh wait, they are. Sometimes its more about keeping a contractor's job in place.

Couple of thoughts-

I vaguely remember something about the F-14 getting a digital AFCS late in its operational life because they kept asking for it. Supposedly enough of their people thought that was worth it. I think I learned this anecdote in the context of "what is an OAG" and "if a piece of gear is worthwhile then an aircraft community really should ask for it."

Then again sometimes the community ends up with something they didn't exactly have in mind... (legacy H-60 NVG lighting kit- a middle school shop class could have done a better job on that one)


'course I'm a navy helo guy talking about other communities but the this applies pretty well to all of naval aviation.


/threadjack

 

[HeyJoe]

I vaguely remember something about the F-14 getting a digital AFCS late in its operational life because they kept asking for it. Supposedly enough of their people thought that was worth it. I think I learned this anecdote in the context of "what is an OAG" and "if a piece of gear is worthwhile then an aircraft community really should ask for it."

That would be DFCS

It was an off-the-shelf GEC Marconi digital system evaluated under an OSD funded Foreign Cooperative Test (FCT) program and subsequently replaced the original analog AFCS to improve handling characteristics in Out-of-Control Flight (OCF), ACM and on the ball. It was turned down initially due to Tomcat nearing the end of its operational career, but after a spate of OCF losses (totalling 35 over life of Tomcat), it was retrofitted in 1996 timeframe and became an instant hit with aircrews. Tomcat performance on the ball improved significantly allowing pilots to contend on better terms for Top Hook as well as yielding better performance in ACM and in carrier landings.

 

[ea6bflyr]

I got a close up personal tour of one of my old CODs courtesy of VRC-40 while at the Windsor International Airshow.

The new blades look freaky, but the aircrew really like the low maintenance and reduced vibrations. Apparently the 8 blades provide more responsive power behind the boat and full prop changes are no longer necessary...they just pop off the individual blades; I'm sure the mechs are loving this. BTW, they are still using the -425 engine.

The cockpit was the new glass cockpit that will eventually make it in all the CODs. Way slick. Enjoy the pics.

-ea6bflyr

 

[ea6bflyr]

Now if they could just take the 1999 proposal to make the GREYHOUND21:

-ea6bflyr

 

[bunk22]

I got a close up personal tour of one of my old CODs courtesy of VRC-40 while at the Windsor International Airshow.

The new blades look freaky, but the aircrew really like the low maintenance and reduced vibrations. Apparently the 8 blades provide more responsive power behind the boat and full prop changes are no longer necessary...they just pop off the individual blades; I'm sure the mechs are loving this. BTW, they are still using the -425 engine.

The cockpit was the new glass cockpit that will eventually make it in all the CODs. Way slick. Enjoy the pics.

-ea6bflyr

Eight-bladed props and glass cockpit!! It's like polishing a turd. Would have been nice to have those props a lot sooner though. Besides the advantage in reduced maint and vibration/noise, I hear they add a bit more thrust which the C-2 needed in certain environments...ie single engine.

 

[Uncle Fester]

The E-2 with the NP2K was definitely quieter ("What the fuck was that?" "Hyd pumps." "Oh...never heard them before.") and had a better climb rate. Much less vibration, too - you didn't feel quite so beat-up at the end of a long flight.

On the other hand, we had way more exciting incidents because of those fuckers than we ever did with the old props. I don't know if they've ironed out the bugs yet.

 

[MasterBates]

Nope.. Beta Lights are still issues. Check out reports available from your local ASO which I can't post here to know more.

Having never been a 4 blade guy (I'm a Cat-2 about to CQ in the E-2 for those who don't know) they are nice in the "set and forget" way, but they have imparted some evil ground handling characteristics if the CSIs/IPs are to be believed.

I don't have a baseline to go off of, but when the trons get pissy in the Prop Control, you can have a bad day. We take a few field arrestments because of electrical issues in te prop once in a while.

 

[Alpha_Echo_606]

Sounds like the AE's need to fix PMBS, I'm not all that familiar with it though.

 

[Uncle Fester]

It's not a Maint Control problem. I was involved in three near-mishaps due to the NP2K systems going batshit. Each one of those involved bringing in tech reps, who looked at the problem, got frowny puzzled faces and said, "huh..." And that's just planes ol' Fester happened to be in, I can't imagine the numbers Fleet-wide.

I'm just some asshole and nobody asked me, but that system was nowhere near ready for Prime Time when it was sent out to the Fleet. Sounds like it still isn't.