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The great Helo debate

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
Give me a fucking break. We've all done numerous waterwashes (ie: start the engines with the rotor brake engaged) and boat starts, too. It's not that g and p are close on the keyboard. It's that Ng and Np are the two things we think about in the turbine section and I was hammered and thought about the wrong one. Whatever, I don't give a fuck. THINK what you want. Sure.... Np is 100% on a rotor-brake start. My point is that fucking trees can act as a quasi-rotor-brake. If you want to tell me I'm retarded because NATOPS addresses that and

While it's obvious that you still don't know what the hell you're talking about, let me hit you with some knowledge.

What is the point of the freewheeling unit? It's there to let the rotor head disconnect and turn independent of the engines in an autorotation or to allow the rotorhead to keep turning if one engine is inoperative and the other is running.

You say you've done waterwashes, which I would expect. When the engines are turning and the rotor brake is on, do you have a reading for Np? No. Why? Is it because there is some magical switch that makes the Np sensor stop reading on a rotor brake start or is it because the Np turbine isn't turning? I'll let you figure that one out.

Here's the answer in a different way. If you get a highside failure on an engine, what's the EP? Think about that one and maybe, just maybe, you'll understand what the hell the freewheeling unit does (and doesn't do).

I don't know the facts, I need to re-read NATOPS.

I couldn't agree more. I suppose in your level III badassery you've dumped all the NATOPS knowledges you were supposed to have.

And don't blame it on being hammered because that just gives the rest of us drunks a bad name.
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
Cat I = FRP, Cat II = retread from another airframe and Cat III = back in saddle from same airframe...is that correct? Sorry, I'm drilling back over 15 years.
 

AK60

New Member
What's the reasoning for that?
Same reasons as Lyman stated. It's to keep the tail from yawing while moving the throttles (PCLs) to FLY. Our ramp is iced over for a good 4-5 months during the year.

Also "shaft rub" is something I've never heard of in the USAF 60 community. Is there a GE white paper about it? We routinely do rotor break starts.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Also "shaft rub" is something I've never heard of in the USAF 60 community. Is there a GE white paper about it? We routinely do rotor break starts.

I'm sure there is. I don't have the maintenance connections anymore, but if you talk to your Sikorsky rep, he/she might be able to coordinate with GE.
 

helolumpy

Apprentice School Principal
pilot
Contributor
Cat I = FRP, Cat II = retread from another airframe and Cat III = back in saddle from same airframe...is that correct? Sorry, I'm drilling back over 15 years.

I'm going back a few years too:
CAT 1 was folks out of flight school
CAT 2 were folks getting a qual in the aircraft (NATOPS check) but without the mission tactical training.
CAT 3 were folks previously qual'd who's NATOPS check was over 18 months old. (Typically folks enroute to command or DH tour who have been out of the cockpit long enough for their NATOPS qual to lapse)
CAT 4 was a CAG/DCAG/Senior Leader fam syllabus
CAT 5 was for pilots who were qualified in the mission previously, but are coming to a new aircraft. (Think H-3 pilots transitioning to H-60's but same missions)
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
While it's obvious that you still don't know what the hell you're talking about, let me hit you with some knowledge.

What is the point of the freewheeling unit? It's there to let the rotor head disconnect and turn independent of the engines in an autorotation or to allow the rotorhead to keep turning if one engine is inoperative and the other is running.

You say you've done waterwashes, which I would expect. When the engines are turning and the rotor brake is on, do you have a reading for Np? No. Why? Is it because there is some magical switch that makes the Np sensor stop reading on a rotor brake start or is it because the Np turbine isn't turning? I'll let you figure that one out.

Here's the answer in a different way. If you get a highside failure on an engine, what's the EP? Think about that one and maybe, just maybe, you'll understand what the hell the freewheeling unit does (and doesn't do).

I couldn't agree more. I suppose in your level III badassery you've dumped all the NATOPS knowledges you were supposed to have.

And don't blame it on being hammered because that just gives the rest of us drunks a bad name.

Pretty sure NATOPS covers that one in the whole "Np>Nr, decoupling" section. And once I became a Lvl IV, I promptly dumped ALL NATOPS knowledges. Correct. And as for poor nomenclature... yes I'm hammered, and although it's a tuesday night/wednesday morning, I'm only on the schedule for OPFOR tonight and it was my birthday today, so fuck you. :)
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I'm going back a few years too:
CAT 1 was folks out of flight school
CAT 2 were folks getting a qual in the aircraft (NATOPS check) but without the mission tactical training.
CAT 3 were folks previously qual'd who's NATOPS check was over 18 months old. (Typically folks enroute to command or DH tour who have been out of the cockpit long enough for their NATOPS qual to lapse)
CAT 4 was a CAG/DCAG/Senior Leader fam syllabus
CAT 5 was for pilots who were qualified in the mission previously, but are coming to a new aircraft. (Think H-3 pilots transitioning to H-60's but same missions)

For HSL/M anyway, it's more in line with what Rob said.

CAT 1: MK 1 Mod 0 studs
CAT 2: Previously qual'ed in T/M but learning new series, including tactics
CAT 3: Previously qual'ed in T/M/S but expired (like you said, usually DHs)
CAT 4: Not sure they really like to use that now
CAT 5: PXO
 

HokiePilot

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
BTW, has anyone known a CAG/DCAG/other similar person to actually get a NATOPS qual in a helo. I know 3710 makes it pretty hard. Also, HSC Wing SOP specifically says unqualled CAGs can't fly a dedicated Plane Guard line. Anytime we want to fly him, we need to fly a second helo to cover Plane Guard.
 

bert

Enjoying the real world
pilot
Contributor
BTW, has anyone known a CAG/DCAG/other similar person to actually get a NATOPS qual in a helo. I know 3710 makes it pretty hard. Also, HSC Wing SOP specifically says unqualled CAGs can't fly a dedicated Plane Guard line. Anytime we want to fly him, we need to fly a second helo to cover Plane Guard.

Even daytime? That's just stupid.
 

wlawr005

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Pretty sure NATOPS covers that one in the whole "Np>Nr, decoupling" section. And once I became a Lvl IV, I promptly dumped ALL NATOPS knowledges. Correct. And as for poor nomenclature... yes I'm hammered, and although it's a tuesday night/wednesday morning, I'm only on the schedule for OPFOR tonight and it was my birthday today, so fuck you. :)

Holy shit.
 
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